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I'm a high school senior atm.
I have always had a desire to go to law school; however, it was a decision I made by literally pelunking myself down and wondering what job would best suit my abilities (I love communication, whether through words or public speaking; I have confidence in my ability to analyze and interpret the written word; I have a passion for people; I am an outgoing and forthright person). However, I have no idea of whether this is really the right way to go.
Considering the fact that there isn't a solid 'path' for undergrad students to prep themselves for law school, how would I be able to know if law is right for me??
I'd hate to base my view of it solely on parent-talk + old episodes of Law&Order. :S
Thanks!
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. !
Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western
Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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there is no way for you to know.
Harsh answer, but its the truth.
Fact of the matter is that your chance at even getting admitted into law school are slim to begin with. I think if you write the LSAT's and do poorly that would be a pretty clear indication that Law ISNT for you.
But when it comes to whether or not its RIGHT for you? theres really no way to tell.
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Join the debating union and other law related activities at university. Take an undergrad subject that you feel passionate about, don't be afraid to change majors to find it. If after 4 years you have an undying urge to continue your subject of study, you'll have your answer.
MA'11 (Queen's)
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rory wrote:I'm a high school senior atm.
I have always had a desire to go to law school; however, it was a decision I made by literally pelunking myself down and wondering what job would best suit my abilities (I love communication, whether through words or public speaking; I have confidence in my ability to analyze and interpret the written word; I have a passion for people; I am an outgoing and forthright person). However, I have no idea of whether this is really the right way to go.
Considering the fact that there isn't a solid 'path' for undergrad students to prep themselves for law school, how would I be able to know if law is right for me??
I'd hate to base my view of it solely on parent-talk + old episodes of Law&Order. :S
Thanks!
Well I'd say TRY and do an undergrad where you think you can get a job with like business or engineering, i know alot of people who wanted to go to law and ended up taking stuff like poli sci or history and 1. found out they didn't want to do law during their undergrad and were stuck with a degree that couldn't get them any good jobs 2. graduated, but didn't have the marks to get into law school and were stuck with mediocre jobs with their liberal arts degree 3. got into law school and found out they hated it, dropped out and ended up with mediocre jobs with their liberal arts degree and I would agree with the above poster that you should try debate club and such, but that is really a small part of the actual profession, see if there any lawyers in your family or circle of friends that you could shadow for a few hours a day, or just call up random people and see if they mind, some may, some may not. and yeah, there really is no 100% sure fire way of knowing whether you would be a good lawyer or not, but keep in mind thats true for almost every single job out there
Queen's Commerce 2013
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Yep, Noel, that's true! I sometimes think I'm getting ahead of myself by worrying about something so far into the future and so challenging as getting into law school. I do plan on writing the LSATS; however, I don't see the point in doing so if it's not the right career path. And also, I wonder about how many people did extremely well and got accepted into law school, only to realize that they hated what they were doing. Isn't it such a huge monetary investment, too?? With medical school, it just seems to me like the people in there would be so much more sure that this is right for them than with law school, simply because of the undergrad background behind it! Although I do know many people who went into law because of a true passion for it (eg. 'I want to know how our systems actually work'), I also know of a guy who switched into a law school just cause he couldn't get into medical school and didn't want to do a PhD in chemistry, and law seemed to be the next highest paying thing available. I don't understand! quiksliver wrote:
Well I'd say TRY and do an undergrad where you think you can get a job with like business or engineering, i know alot of people who wanted to go to law and ended up taking stuff like poli sci or history and
1. found out they didn't want to do law during their undergrad and were stuck with a degree that couldn't get them any good jobs
2. graduated, but didn't have the marks to get into law school and were stuck with mediocre jobs with their liberal arts degree
3. got into law school and found out they hated it, dropped out and ended up with mediocre jobs with their liberal arts degree
and I would agree with the above poster that you should try debate club and such, but that is really a small part of the actual profession, see if there any lawyers in your family or circle of friends that you could shadow for a few hours a day, or just call up random people and see if they mind, some may, some may not.
and yeah, there really is no 100% sure fire way of knowing whether you would be a good lawyer or not, but keep in mind thats true for almost every single job out there
that makes a lot of sense.
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. ! Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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Rory:
As a prospective Law student myself, let me try and address your concerns.
"I do plan on writing the LSATS; however, I don't see the point in doing so if it's not the right career path."
If you believe you will do well on the LSAT, and you study hard, write it anyways. Lots of prospective employers will look at a high LSAT score and be impressed.
"I wonder about how many people did extremely well and got accepted into law school, only to realize that they hated what they were doing."
A fair percentage, but that is expected in any program. Whether it's medicine, law, engineering, or even music, a lot of people think it will be something different than it actually is, and discover they do not want to do what they thought they did.
"Isn't it such a huge monetary investment, too??"
Yes, yes it is. Law school in Canada can cost anything between $4,000 a year to $40,000 a year, and that is for tuition alone. And remember, that's per year. I know in the States the costs are higher, but I am not sure what the cost is exactly.
And as to your last point, there's a reason for this format. It's the same reason the LSAT is a general knowledge test, and not specific. There is no way to prepare someone for law that will consistently separate the wheat from the chaff in a specific program. They wish to recruit the best from the broadest categories available, which is why you'll find students with degrees in arts, sciences, and everything else in law. You'll even find some students with no previous degrees at all, at least in some programs.
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ClayL wrote:Rory:
As a prospective Law student myself, let me try and address your concerns.
"I do plan on writing the LSATS; however, I don't see the point in doing so if it's not the right career path."
If you believe you will do well on the LSAT, and you study hard, write it anyways. Lots of prospective employers will look at a high LSAT score and be impressed.
"I wonder about how many people did extremely well and got accepted into law school, only to realize that they hated what they were doing."
A fair percentage, but that is expected in any program. Whether it's medicine, law, engineering, or even music, a lot of people think it will be something different than it actually is, and discover they do not want to do what they thought they did.
"Isn't it such a huge monetary investment, too??"
Yes, yes it is. Law school in Canada can cost anything between $4,000 a year to $40,000 a year, and that is for tuition alone. And remember, that's per year. I know in the States the costs are higher, but I am not sure what the cost is exactly.
And as to your last point, there's a reason for this format. It's the same reason the LSAT is a general knowledge test, and not specific. There is no way to prepare someone for law that will consistently separate the wheat from the chaff in a specific program. They wish to recruit the best from the broadest categories available, which is why you'll find students with degrees in arts, sciences, and everything else in law. You'll even find some students with no previous degrees at all, at least in some programs. You definitely did address every concern. Thank you! Clay, out of curiosity: why did you decide to pursue Law? Had you always planned on this path?
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. ! Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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Choosing law as a career is no different than choosing any other profession. You'll never know for sure if it's going to be what you expected. As a prospective law student myself, you pretty much just have to gather as much information about the profession as possible in order to truly get the best impression of whether or not it's right for you. And you're right, there is no undergraduate degree that will prep you for law, but there are classes that are more helpful than others. Having a background in say political science is more helpful than a degree in Russian literature, for example.
Joint Honors Major Political Science & Classical Studies 2012
~McGill~
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I have also considered law a great deal, mostly because I want the education, I enjoy thinking critically and arguing over various topics, but I also know a few lawyers, and by and large they tell me not to bother because they find the job to be dull and tedious.
You can always do this specialization or that one with a law degree, but starting out requires articling which is long and dull.
I really want to experience the education, I think I would really enjoy it, but if the job after that isn't worthwhile, then there is little point.
When you enter university, your first semester should be generic stuff that you can use for anything, you will have access to advisors once you enter, talk to them and ask them to put you in touch with people that can help you, I'll bet they can convince a prof from your Law faculty to talk to you regarding your questions. I'd also say go to the law faculty, and ask their office if they hold any info sessions for admissions etc. during the year, and ask if there are any law faculty advisors that can help you answer your questions. Most universities hold info sessions for the post graduate faculties.
I'd suggest you first research the education requirements, the kind of work you'll be doing, and try to figure out what kind of questions to ask people.
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Try getting a job at a law firm. That is what I did, and I found out that the profession is very different than I had previously imagined, and I am glad I found out now instead after I wasted all my time applying for law schools.
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It is a difficult decision but keep in mind that your results on the LSAT don't necessarily accurately predict how well you will do in law school. I am a second year law student and if you are interested there are often introductory law classes at the undergraduate level. If you are in high school pick an undergraduate degree that you are interested in because in most cases a specific degree doesn't give you an advantage. It is alot of work and you have to be committed to seven years of university. I would also suggest going and sitting in on a class if there is a faculty of law in your area, contact a lawyer and ask their advice. Ultimately it is something that you have to try to figure out if it right for you. The practice of law is also quite different then the study of law. Debating is a good way to figure out if you would enjoy being a litigator but as someone mentioned that is a very small part of practicing law. You essentially have to take a chance on it and it's possible you'll change your mind several times before you actually decide on what to do. It is different for everyone. Some lawyers love their work are very excited by the law and others do not really like it. It also depends on which area of law you choose, one you pick one you're not stuck there, there is room for movement. Good Luck.
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thanks for all the help. this is great! You guys have so much great advice to dish out. It really clears up a lot of 'vague'ness. Thank you!
Just another curious question:
in your opinion, what traits/passions allow one to thrive in the law field? I ask this to just get a feel of what kind of people would enjoy this field of study, to see if it coincides with my own strengths/interests.
Also, I don't plan on going into law to become a lawyer; rather, I'd like to explore International Diplomacy and always assumed that Law School would be a good pathway for that. What do you think?
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. !
Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western
Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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rory wrote:thanks for all the help. this is great! You guys have so much great advice to dish out. It really clears up a lot of 'vague'ness. Thank you!
Just another curious question:
in your opinion, what traits/passions allow one to thrive in the law field? I ask this to just get a feel of what kind of people would enjoy this field of study, to see if it coincides with my own strengths/interests.
Also, I don't plan on going into law to become a lawyer; rather, I'd like to explore International Diplomacy and always assumed that Law School would be a good pathway for that. What do you think? Many people go to law school with dreams about international diplomacy, human rights, etc. and end up doing corporate law work on Bay St. A law degree is a wonderful degree that is extremely versatile and can get you into most careers, including intenational diplomacy, but it's not a surefire way to get into that field and requires extensive networking and so forth to get your foot in the door. As a current law student, I'd say that doing a law degree without the intention to practice law is not a very good idea, as law school is very expensive, time-consuming, challenging and simply a lot of work, especially for someone who doesn't even want to practice law. Have you thought about getting a master's in public policy or international relations or something of the sort instead? Carleton has a top-tier internatonal affairs program at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, and many American schools (Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton, Fletcher at Tufts, SAIS at Johns Hopkins University, etc.) have amazing international affairs programs that are much more suited to someone interested in international diplomacy because they are directly related to the field and can offer amazing networks to help you get your foot in the door. And to answer your first question, traits that seem to be common amongst lawyers are an analytical, logical and rational mind, attention to detail, strong written and oral communication skills and the ability to make calm, rational and logical arguments (while people seem to think that if you like to argue passionately, you should be a lawyer, this is ridiculous and untrue, and moreover, bad career advice).
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espionage wrote:the ability to make calm, rational and logical arguments (while people seem to think that if you like to argue passionately, you should be a lawyer, this is ridiculous and untrue, and moreover, bad career advice). That's why I shouldn't be a lawyer. Haha. I always watch shows like Law and Order and I couldn't handle all the lawyers picking at each other and being mean.
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ClayL wrote:Rory:
As a prospective Law student myself, let me try and address your concerns.
"I do plan on writing the LSATS; however, I don't see the point in doing so if it's not the right career path."
If you believe you will do well on the LSAT, and you study hard, write it anyways. Lots of prospective employers will look at a high LSAT score and be impressed.
"I wonder about how many people did extremely well and got accepted into law school, only to realize that they hated what they were doing."
A fair percentage, but that is expected in any program. Whether it's medicine, law, engineering, or even music, a lot of people think it will be something different than it actually is, and discover they do not want to do what they thought they did.
"Isn't it such a huge monetary investment, too??"
Yes, yes it is. Law school in Canada can cost anything between $4,000 a year to $40,000 a year, and that is for tuition alone. And remember, that's per year. I know in the States the costs are higher, but I am not sure what the cost is exactly.
And as to your last point, there's a reason for this format. It's the same reason the LSAT is a general knowledge test, and not specific. There is no way to prepare someone for law that will consistently separate the wheat from the chaff in a specific program. They wish to recruit the best from the broadest categories available, which is why you'll find students with degrees in arts, sciences, and everything else in law. You'll even find some students with no previous degrees at all, at least in some programs. I'm going to wave the BS flag right here. I highly doubt that any prospective employers look at your LSAT scores. It is for admissions purposes only, and reflects little on how a student will actually perform in the workplace. There are numerous studies to back this up. Also, no law school in Canada charges $40 000 for domestic students. That's absolutely absurd. U of T's tuition is $20 000 and that's the highest in Canada. You are likely looking in the neighbourhood of $12 000 for law school, with the range being from $7000-20,000 possibly unless you go to a civil law school.
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hannahsj wrote:Try getting a job at a law firm. That is what I did, and I found out that the profession is very different than I had previously imagined, and I am glad I found out now instead after I wasted all my time applying for law schools. In what sense was it different than what you had imagined? I've heard that it's a lot of sit down-ing, paperwork, long hours, etc. But if that's the case, then what makes those lawyers who love their jobs...well, still love their jobs, even with all the downsides? Lisa J wrote: I am a second year law student and if you are interested there are often introductory law classes at the undergraduate level. If you are in high school pick an undergraduate degree that you are interested in because in most cases a specific degree doesn't give you an advantage. It is alot of work and you have to be committed to seven years of university. I would also suggest going and sitting in on a class if there is a faculty of law in your area, contact a lawyer and ask their advice. Ultimately it is something that you have to try to figure out if it right for you. The practice of law is also quite different then the study of law. Debating is a good way to figure out if you would enjoy being a litigator but as someone mentioned that is a very small part of practicing law. You essentially have to take a chance on it and it's possible you'll change your mind several times before you actually decide on what to do. It is different for everyone. Some lawyers love their work are very excited by the law and others do not really like it. It also depends on which area of law you choose, one you pick one you're not stuck there, there is room for movement. Good Luck. In school, I enjoyed courses like English and Philosophy the most because of the type of thinking that the courses entailed, but am not sure if taking these as majors would leave enough doors open for me regarding post-undergrad. I know that the type of courses that I want to major in are ones that can strengthen my linguistic, critical and analytical skills (all things that I am very passionate about), but I can't seem to narrow anything down beyond that! I have to apply for undergrad programs this month and can't decide. espionage wrote:
Many people go to law school with dreams about international diplomacy, human rights, etc. and end up doing corporate law work on Bay St. A law degree is a wonderful degree that is extremely versatile and can get you into most careers, including intenational diplomacy, but it's not a surefire way to get into that field and requires extensive networking and so forth to get your foot in the door. As a current law student, I'd say that doing a law degree without the intention to practice law is not a very good idea, as law school is very expensive, time-consuming, challenging and simply a lot of work, especially for someone who doesn't even want to practice law.
Have you thought about getting a master's in public policy or international relations or something of the sort instead?
espionage and LisaJ, what made you decide to go to (and stay in) law school if it was so expensive, time-consuming and hard? and espionage, what makes those who go into law school with dreams of international diplomacy not achieve that? What do you mean by 'networking'? Honestly, as ignorant as this sounds... I didn't consider international relations as an option b/c I have no solid clue about what it entailed. The reason why I thought of International Diplomacy as a viable option is because I have strong analytical and oral/written skills, but also a huge passion for languages and cultures. That's basically all I'm going on, and I didn't think that this was a good enough reason to jump wholeheartedly into International Affairs. I thought that these strengths could be equally suited for law school; I believed that law school would be a more general backdrop for me to focus on and assumed that it would be a much stronger degree to fall back on, regardless of what I decide to pursue in the future. What would be the difference between the type of person who enjoys and thrives in law school, vs someone who enjoys and thrives in the study of International Affairs? What should make someone choose either over the other? Undergrad application time is coming around and I feel like I can't make a decision about what undergrad programs to choose without a solid idea of what I'm doing after those 4 years... which is why this decision is so worrying!
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. ! Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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rory wrote:
Undergrad application time is coming around and I feel like I can't make a decision about what undergrad programs to choose without a solid idea of what I'm doing after those 4 years... which is why this decision is so worrying!
I think you're making it a much bigger deal than it needs to be. You can switch into most undergrad programs quite easily after one year of university, so if you decide you've done the wrong thing, it's really easy to change your mind without wasting too much time. I think you'll find hardly anyone goes into university with a solid idea of what they want to be doing after 4 years. That's WHY they go to university, to discover what it is they want to do. You'll probably discover careers you didn't even know existed
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Law is basically nothing what you see on TV or movies.
Still, I don't get why you're deciding on law school in high school. You have 4 years to go before you get your undergraduate degree, let alone a law degree. Sure, keep it in the back of your mind, but thinking that far ahead right now is only going to stress you out.
You'll have plenty of time to figure out if it's something you want to pursure more as you progress through university. Talk to some lawyers, read up on it, take some law classes, etc. and you should get a better idea what it'll be like. The decision to enter law school can be delayed basically indefinitely so don't get too worked up about it.
-Stringer
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hahaha, that's comforting to know.
is excited for a future, and will start to be excited for her future once she decides on it. !
Applied to: McGill, Queen's, UofT (St. George) : Arts (International Studies), Western
Early Acceptance to: Everywhere! Now for the decisions.
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^ I think part of what Stringer means by law is nothing like on TV or in movies is that it is a lot less interesting. I went to a couple trials in grade 11, and they were all snooze fests (and it wasn't just me... that was the class' consensus). I even went to see a world-class boxer's murder case... it was boring too. Unfortunately, I don't think there are many John Travolta-like lawyers out there.
The process (before trials) may actually be interesting though, for certain people at least.
Honours BMSc Specialization in Medical Science, Minor in Psychology UWO '09
Bachelor of Pharmacy Alberta '13 ?
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