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Teachers salary.. Options
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 9:59:00 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
TheSituation wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).

I have a lot of really stressed out teachers, so I wouldn't say that they don't have stress.


Stress from............

Who is there boss? I'd say their biggest worry is the parents of under-performing students. Not nearly as stressful as a boss who may be the public (aka citizens), senior management, or shareholders. If marking a few tests on your personal time on the weekend gets you stressed, you don't know what real stress is. But again, "real" stress is what earns you big dollars. People are paid more based on the responsibility and accountability the job encompasses. And teaching, at the high school level, does not reflect those two factors predominantly, which is why they make average money.



I mean stress from the parents of under-performing students, and from ill behaved students.

edit: I think that teachers make decent money, by the way. The more experience you have (seniority, additional degrees) gets you more $. That's just like any other job. My family's not living on the streets. We have a house (a legit house) and a couple of cars. My dad (who works in business) makes around the same amount of money as my mom.

Teachers aren't broke, but they do work hard. THAT is my point smile

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:04:20 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
kargo93 wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
What do you mean "only" $70,000 after 10 years? They also have incredible benefits, great working hours (about 8am to 3pm and they can do some marking at home whenever they want), and that $70,000 a year is for only 10 months a year of work (and the 10 months they are working they are not doing full time). Sounds like a good deal to me.


+ BS from kids

I'm wondering why they work in summers.. In other forums I read they dont make enough so they work in summers etc..
However, they do more than 8-3 they mark and prepare for the next day so i'd say 7-6/7
so its basically 60hours a week?


What! BS! Teachers don't work 60 hours a week. They "teach" for about 6 hours a day (say 8:30 to 2:30) and about an hour of that time is a spare to mark and prepare. Preparation for courses takes little to no time: you just need to review your notes and then you're good to go.


Yeah, right. I'm from a family of teachers. My mom (a band teacher) gets to school at 7:15 and starts teaching at 7:45. She has rehearsals every day at lunch. She gives extra help every day after school and then gets home at about 4:30. She puts in a minimum of two hours in every night of work. She also goes in for at least a week in the summer to prepare, which still leaves a lot of time off though. On weekends she puts in about 2 hours a day.

That would add up to around 60, and she's a music teacher.

I have other teachers in my family (elementary, jr high and high school). I can tell you that they put in an incredible amount of work. 55-60 hours a week would be my guess.


And her doing those things are required of her as a teacher?

No, they're not. She took on the extra band responsibilities and that's why she's working extra.

I don't doubt that there are teachers who do work 60 hours a week, but that is not the norm, nor is it required of them as teachers.

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:07:40 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
kargo93 wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
What do you mean "only" $70,000 after 10 years? They also have incredible benefits, great working hours (about 8am to 3pm and they can do some marking at home whenever they want), and that $70,000 a year is for only 10 months a year of work (and the 10 months they are working they are not doing full time). Sounds like a good deal to me.


+ BS from kids

I'm wondering why they work in summers.. In other forums I read they dont make enough so they work in summers etc..
However, they do more than 8-3 they mark and prepare for the next day so i'd say 7-6/7
so its basically 60hours a week?


What! BS! Teachers don't work 60 hours a week. They "teach" for about 6 hours a day (say 8:30 to 2:30) and about an hour of that time is a spare to mark and prepare. Preparation for courses takes little to no time: you just need to review your notes and then you're good to go.


Yeah, right. I'm from a family of teachers. My mom (a band teacher) gets to school at 7:15 and starts teaching at 7:45. She has rehearsals every day at lunch. She gives extra help every day after school and then gets home at about 4:30. She puts in a minimum of two hours in every night of work. She also goes in for at least a week in the summer to prepare, which still leaves a lot of time off though. On weekends she puts in about 2 hours a day.

That would add up to around 60, and she's a music teacher.

I have other teachers in my family (elementary, jr high and high school). I can tell you that they put in an incredible amount of work. 55-60 hours a week would be my guess.


And her doing those things are required of her as a teacher?

No, they're not. She took on the extra band responsibilities and that's why she's working extra.


No, but it is what she does. Other teachers give extra help, run clubs and spend hours and hours marking papers. If they did not, our educational system would not function, at all.

My mother and three cousins teach in the public school system. Two of my aunt and my grandmother used to work in the public school system. They have teacher friends. I'm in high school. I'm just telling you that teaching is not an 8:30- 2:30 job.

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:10:26 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).


They do work from 8:30 to 2:30. That is their work day. There is some preparation before classes and there is some marking required at home, but only having to work 6 hours a day and then being at home to do some leisurely work is a great deal.

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:12:02 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
kaloolah wrote:
No, but it is what she does. Other teachers give extra help, run clubs and spend hours and hours marking papers. If they did not, our educational system would not function, at all.

My mother and three cousins teach in the public school system. Two of my aunt and my grandmother used to work in the public school system. They have teacher friends. I'm in high school. I'm just telling you that teaching is not an 8:30- 2:30 job.


I never said that was all they do. But you can't say teachers work 60 hours a week when many of those 60 hours are spent doing extra-curricular activities that they volunteered to do.

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
g93
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:12:32 PM

Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/29/2010
Posts: 315
It's like anything in life: the more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it.

That could be $, respect, personal satisfaction...

Applied to: Laurier BBA Waterloo AFM-PA Brock BAcc (Co-op)

Might switch Brock BAcc to Guelph BComm- PM me if you are in the program or know someone who is in it or have any info at all.
g93
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:17:07 PM

Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/29/2010
Posts: 315
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).


They do work from 8:30 to 2:30. That is their work day. There is some preparation before classes and there is some marking required at home, but only having to work 6 hours a day and then being at home to do some leisurely work is a great deal.
My dad is supposed to work 7:30 to 3:30, 5 days a week, but he's often in earlier, works until six or seven generally, sometimes 8 or 9, sometimes 12 or early the next morning, sometimes six or seven days a week. But as everyone else was getting laid off, he wasn't, he gets paid well, has a TON of respect, and is pretty much immune to being fired now, partly due to his skills and partly to his time put in.
(he's not a teacher btw)

Applied to: Laurier BBA Waterloo AFM-PA Brock BAcc (Co-op)

Might switch Brock BAcc to Guelph BComm- PM me if you are in the program or know someone who is in it or have any info at all.
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:20:32 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).


They do work from 8:30 to 2:30. That is their work day. There is some preparation before classes and there is some marking required at home, but only having to work 6 hours a day and then being at home to do some leisurely work is a great deal.


Yeah, they just correct papers for fun, didn' t 'chu know?

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
g93
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:24:44 PM

Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/29/2010
Posts: 315
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).


They do work from 8:30 to 2:30. That is their work day. There is some preparation before classes and there is some marking required at home, but only having to work 6 hours a day and then being at home to do some leisurely work is a great deal.


Yeah, they just correct papers for fun, didn' t 'chu know?
I don't thin realizes that if you just show up and do the bare minimum, you're not going to get very far...in any job.

And some jobs actually require you to work outside of work. But he doesn't seem to get that.

Applied to: Laurier BBA Waterloo AFM-PA Brock BAcc (Co-op)

Might switch Brock BAcc to Guelph BComm- PM me if you are in the program or know someone who is in it or have any info at all.
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:35:46 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
LawStudent wrote:


I don't doubt that there are teachers who do work 60 hours a week, but that is not the norm, nor is it required of them as teachers.


They are not being paid by the hour. It is in their contract that they must be there for a certain amount of time, say 8:00-3:30 minimum. However, they NEED TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR JOB. Their job is to teach the curriculum that they are paid to teach.

An example for jr high/ high school: It it takes 20 minutes per kid to mark their weekly assignment, and you teach 3 classes (3*35= 105), then thats 35 hours per week of marking for one piece of work per student. They get an hour of prep a day.

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
kargo93
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:36:57 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/22/2010
Posts: 184
Location: Underwater
ok considering they go to school at 7 and leave at 6/7 that is 12 hours

but there are some that leave at 3:05/4 etc... but thats not every day... and those arent the core teachers, they are sually art, music, gym teachers where they dont have to mark things every day...

Applied to:
Ryerson - Bcomm | UWindsor - Bcomm Co-op | York- Concurrent


Kargo93- on new forum
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:38:25 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
kargo93 wrote:
ok considering they go to school at 7 and leave at 6/7 that is 12 hours

but there are some that leave at 3:05/4 etc... but thats not every day... and those arent the core teachers, they are sually art, music, gym teachers where they dont have to mark things every day...


Well, I would argue that music teachers work waaaaay more than art/ gym teachers.

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
kargo93
Posted: December 19, 2010 10:52:43 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/22/2010
Posts: 184
Location: Underwater
kaloolah wrote:
kargo93 wrote:
ok considering they go to school at 7 and leave at 6/7 that is 12 hours

but there are some that leave at 3:05/4 etc... but thats not every day... and those arent the core teachers, they are sually art, music, gym teachers where they dont have to mark things every day...


Well, I would argue that music teachers work waaaaay more than art/ gym teachers.


Yea I guess... ususally theses teachers teach more than 1 subject..


Applied to:
Ryerson - Bcomm | UWindsor - Bcomm Co-op | York- Concurrent


Kargo93- on new forum
TheSituation
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:10:15 PM

Rank: 3M National Teaching Fellow
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/5/2010
Posts: 843
Location: GTL
There is no need to continue debating. The thread should be muted following my previous post.

University of Western Ontario
Business Management and Organizational Studies (BMOS)
Class of 2013

dunno wrote:
The Asian floor was one of the tightest floors in the rez
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:10:58 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
g93 wrote:
It's like anything in life: the more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it.

That could be $, respect, personal satisfaction...


Of course. But you can't do extra and more than what is required of you and then whine that you're doing all that extra work...

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:12:35 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
g93 wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
She gets home at 4:30, but then starts doing work at home for another 2 hours. She doesn't take a lunch break. Working from 7:00-6:30 is long.
I'm not saying that they work harder than people in other jobs (with the 2-3 months off and all razz). I was just trying to correct LawStudent, who thinks that they work from 8:30-2:30 (6 hours a day).


They do work from 8:30 to 2:30. That is their work day. There is some preparation before classes and there is some marking required at home, but only having to work 6 hours a day and then being at home to do some leisurely work is a great deal.


Yeah, they just correct papers for fun, didn' t 'chu know?
I don't thin realizes that if you just show up and do the bare minimum, you're not going to get very far...in any job.

And some jobs actually require you to work outside of work. But he doesn't seem to get that.


I do get that. But working for 6 hours a day and then having to do some paper marking at home? Oh boo hoo! What a horrible deal! erm

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:28:24 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
LawStudent wrote:


I do get that. But working for 6 hours a day and then having to do some paper marking at home? Oh boo hoo! What a horrible deal! erm


kaloolah wrote:

An example for jr high/ high school: It it takes 20 minutes per kid to mark their weekly assignment, and you teach 3 classes (3*35= 105), then thats 35 hours per week of marking for one piece of work per student. They get an hour of prep a day.


That would be a conservative estimate. I'm not talking about teachers on the far end of the spectrum. One of my current teachers says that he works 80 hours/ week. That would be on the far end. 60 is not.

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:35:11 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:


I do get that. But working for 6 hours a day and then having to do some paper marking at home? Oh boo hoo! What a horrible deal! erm


kaloolah wrote:

An example for jr high/ high school: It it takes 20 minutes per kid to mark their weekly assignment, and you teach 3 classes (3*35= 105), then thats 35 hours per week of marking for one piece of work per student. They get an hour of prep a day.


That would be a conservative estimate. I'm not talking about teachers on the far end of the spectrum. One of my current teachers says that he works 80 hours/ week. That would be on the far end. 60 is not.


Again, I'm not saying that some teachers don't work 60 or 80 hours a week. Maybe they do. But is that required of all teachers? No! They took on extra responsibilities, such as running an after-school club or starting a new course. That was their choice and that's what takes up their extra time.

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011
kaloolah
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:36:32 PM

Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 122
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:


I do get that. But working for 6 hours a day and then having to do some paper marking at home? Oh boo hoo! What a horrible deal! erm


kaloolah wrote:

An example for jr high/ high school: It it takes 20 minutes per kid to mark their weekly assignment, and you teach 3 classes (3*35= 105), then thats 35 hours per week of marking for one piece of work per student. They get an hour of prep a day.


That would be a conservative estimate. I'm not talking about teachers on the far end of the spectrum. One of my current teachers says that he works 80 hours/ week. That would be on the far end. 60 is not.


Again, I'm not saying that some teachers don't work 60 or 80 hours a week. Maybe they do. But is that required of all teachers? No! They took on extra responsibilities, such as running an after-school club or starting a new course. That was their choice and that's what takes up their extra time.



...or doing their jobs (marking stuff)! 35 hours of marking/ preparing for class outside of school + 5 1/2 hours/ day in school = 62.5 hours.

EC's:
Auditioned for the National Youth Band for 2011 (haven't heard back yet, fingers crossed!)
4 years provincial honor band
4 years provincial honor jazz band program
5 years in the honors district music program: choir, band (first chair flute/ piccolo), big band (playing lead sax)
6 years school music program, playing/ singing in various groups such as the choir, concert band, jazz band, jazz combo, sax ensemble, flute ensemble
1 year school debate team
1 year school newspaper
11 years girl guides
Grade 8 RCM flute (working on grade 9)
LawStudent
Posted: December 19, 2010 11:41:02 PM

Rank: Posteur Intermédiaire
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 683
Location: Ottawa, ON.
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
kaloolah wrote:
LawStudent wrote:


I do get that. But working for 6 hours a day and then having to do some paper marking at home? Oh boo hoo! What a horrible deal! erm


kaloolah wrote:

An example for jr high/ high school: It it takes 20 minutes per kid to mark their weekly assignment, and you teach 3 classes (3*35= 105), then thats 35 hours per week of marking for one piece of work per student. They get an hour of prep a day.


That would be a conservative estimate. I'm not talking about teachers on the far end of the spectrum. One of my current teachers says that he works 80 hours/ week. That would be on the far end. 60 is not.


Again, I'm not saying that some teachers don't work 60 or 80 hours a week. Maybe they do. But is that required of all teachers? No! They took on extra responsibilities, such as running an after-school club or starting a new course. That was their choice and that's what takes up their extra time.



...or doing their jobs (marking stuff)! 35 hours of marking/ preparing for class outside of school + 5 1/2 hours/ day in school = 62.5 hours.


No way the average teacher of 30 spends 35 hours a week on marking.

And besides, even if they did, to be allowed to do so is a great benefit. There are few other professions where you could sit at home with your family, watching TV, drinking a beer, and doing your job.

Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law 2011


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