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Carleton Requirement Mix-Up Options
D.Dickin
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:50:02 PM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
Alright, so right now I'm not too happy. Until today, I was under the impression that I was going to Carleton with a $1,000 bursary, $2,500 scholarship for four years, residence application... the whole deal that showed me Carleton University really wanted me to go to their school. However, (only by chance, I might add) my guidance counsellor and I discovered I don't have the required courses to go to university. When applying I was told acceptance would be based off my top six courses for grades 11 and 12. Now, I'm told I need six university level courses in grade 12.

After talking with an arrogant assistant on the phone I'm left upset, worried, confused, and looking for answers. This is the letter I sent to Carleton Admissions:
Quote:
Hello,

I am looking for a large amount of consideration and explanation regarding my application to attend Carleton University's Honours Bachelor of Arts Program. A great deal of misinformation and miscommunication has left my application at risk for something that could have been prevented.

When originally applying to the university in December, I was told acceptance would be based on my top six marks from grade 11 and 12 university and college-level courses. I was also informed that the additional requirement for an Arts program would be to achieve at least 70% in Grade 12 English. With reference to my OUAC Academic Information, you will see I hold 10 grade 11 and 12 courses all at or above 80%; some have even reached into high 90's with 96 and 93%. I soon after received an offer from Carleton university, conditional on completing my Ontario Secondary School Diploma (OSSD) and maintaining 70% in grade 12 English. It was with tremendous excitement that I received an offer from Carleton. Both of these requirements are achievable.

However, only today with a chance encounter was I told my acceptance and entire application was at risk due to not having six grade 12 courses. I maintain five, which continue my standard of high 80's and 90's. My sixth grade 12 course was dropped early in the semester as I could not handle the work load combined with 25 hours per week at work and 30 hours per week training with the Canadian Forces. I was told by representatives with my high school, the OUAC, and Carleton that the only requirements I need to meet were 70% in Grade 12 English and achieving my OSSD. Receiving an offer of admission from Carleton reaffirmed that these were the requirements, as my offer was conditional. Carleton's further offer of residence, a $2,500 scholarship renewable for four years, and a $1,000 bursary extends my belief that Carleton is on a quest to gain a student such as me.

I am currently training with the Canadian Forces through a Co-Operative education course. This requires approximately 30 hours per week, and I further work for about 25 hours per week. Maintaining such a work load along with my school schedule was not feasible, which is when the course was taken off my timetable. The Canadian Forces requires my time during the month of July to complete further training. However, with these new revelations I would now be required to miss this essential training to complete a sixth course. Completing such a course would require me to put off the military training, and further force me to move cross-province only a few days before beginning my program with Carleton.

It is my sincere desire that you will maintain my offer of admission without the sixth course. My transcript lists several excellent marks which are above the requirements for several of Carleton's courses. My letter of extenuating circumstances also demonstrates a great background of high school achievement and excellence, along with hard work and determination outside of my school life. Having to complete such a course along with military training and moving to Ottawa would be difficult and pressed very short for time.

I ask for your understanding in these circumstances and that an offer can be made based off my excellence achieved in all of my other courses. Please contact me via email or the phone numbers listed below.

Yours Truly,


Has anyone else heard of this happening? I was ecstatic about going to Carleton. Now all I can do is go to summer school or apply again next year. Does anyone think they'll make an exception to their six grade 12 rule?

Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
Stringer
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:53:41 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,396
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
I highly doubt they will make an exception.

Every university program in Canada requires 6 U/M courses for students entering from high school.

-Stringer
fleurdelacour
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:53:51 PM

Rank: Senior Student
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 93
Location: Toronto
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you MUST have at least 6 grade 12 courses to even meet the requirements for the OSSD?


Lakehead University Alum '08
HBA French, minor in English
D.Dickin
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:56:07 PM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
Stringer wrote:
How did you manage to not take 6 Grade 12 U/M courses? What did you do all Grade 12?


I have five. Currently I'm doing grade 12 English and a three-credit military Co-Op. which leaves me doing 80-hour+ weeks when combined with work.

Quote:
Every university program in Canada requires 6 U/M courses for students entering from high school.


News to me. I was told top six in all of grade 11 and 12. Now I hear that's only for early admissions.

Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
Stringer
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:57:35 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,396
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
D.Dickin wrote:
Stringer wrote:
How did you manage to not take 6 Grade 12 U/M courses? What did you do all Grade 12?


I have five. Currently I'm doing grade 12 English and a three-credit military Co-Op. which leaves me doing 80-hour+ weeks when combined with work.

Quote:
Every university program in Canada requires 6 U/M courses for students entering from high school.


News to me. I was told top six in all of grade 11 and 12. Now I hear that's only for early admissions.


Grade 11 credits mean nothing. They marks may matter for early admission, but you still do need to have 6 U/M Grade 12 courses. Looks like you need to find a way to get that last credit or you won't be admitted.

-Stringer
D.Dickin
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:03:02 PM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
Stringer wrote:
Grade 11 credits mean nothing. They marks may matter for early admission, but you still do need to have 6 U/M Grade 12 courses. Looks like you need to find a way to get that last credit or you won't be admitted.


And my extenuating circumstances make that very unfair. It seems that what I was told for early admission is what was said for admission period. Since when (and why?) are the requirements one thing to get admitted, but another to actually go there?

Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
Kaylya
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:04:37 PM

Rank: Student Body Vice-President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 716
Location: Ottawa
fleurdelacour wrote:
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you MUST have at least 6 grade 12 courses to even meet the requirements for the OSSD?


You do not need 6 grade 12 courses to complete the OSSD but it is the basic requirement for university entrance in Ontario for Ontario students. Some out of province schools may take you with only 5, but usually they look at 6 as well (even if the "standard" in their province is 4 or 5).

The reference to grade 11 courses is that they consider those marks along with early grade 12 marks for early admission.

I think it is possible that they could make an exception, but don't count on it.

Stringer
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:09:50 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,396
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
D.Dickin wrote:
Stringer wrote:
Grade 11 credits mean nothing. They marks may matter for early admission, but you still do need to have 6 U/M Grade 12 courses. Looks like you need to find a way to get that last credit or you won't be admitted.


And my extenuating circumstances make that very unfair. It seems that what I was told for early admission is what was said for admission period. Since when (and why?) are the requirements one thing to get admitted, but another to actually go there?


What extenuating circumstances? You were accepted and given that offer when you had 6 U/M courses. You dropped one, which makes you ineligible for university. You should have done more research before dropping that class because now you're in a predicament.

-Stringer
Lamoid
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:10:54 PM

Rank: Senior Student
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 135
Location: Ontario
You could try telling them that you will take a summer course.

Edit: Six grade 12 credits are listen on every university admission page as a requirement so you might be screwed.
bigbadsheep
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:11:21 PM

Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 521
D.Dickin wrote:
Alright, so right now I'm not too happy. Until today, I was under the impression that I was going to Carleton with a $1,000 bursary, $2,500 scholarship for four years, residence application... the whole deal that showed me Carleton University really wanted me to go to their school. However, (only by chance, I might add) my guidance counsellor and I discovered I don't have the required courses to go to university. When applying I was told acceptance would be based off my top six courses for grades 11 and 12. Now, I'm told I need six university level courses in grade 12.

After talking with an arrogant assistant on the phone I'm left upset, worried, confused, and looking for answers. This is the letter I sent to Carleton Admissions:
Quote:
Hello,

I am looking for a large amount of consideration and explanation regarding my application to attend Carleton University's Honours Bachelor of Arts Program. A great deal of misinformation and miscommunication has left my application at risk for something that could have been prevented.

When originally applying to the university in December, I was told acceptance would be based on my top six marks from grade 11 and 12 university and college-level courses. I was also informed that the additional requirement for an Arts program would be to achieve at least 70% in Grade 12 English. With reference to my OUAC Academic Information, you will see I hold 10 grade 11 and 12 courses all at or above 80%; some have even reached into high 90's with 96 and 93%. I soon after received an offer from Carleton university, conditional on completing my Ontario Secondary School Diploma (OSSD) and maintaining 70% in grade 12 English. It was with tremendous excitement that I received an offer from Carleton. Both of these requirements are achievable.

However, only today with a chance encounter was I told my acceptance and entire application was at risk due to not having six grade 12 courses. I maintain five, which continue my standard of high 80's and 90's. My sixth grade 12 course was dropped early in the semester as I could not handle the work load combined with 25 hours per week at work and 30 hours per week training with the Canadian Forces. I was told by representatives with my high school, the OUAC, and Carleton that the only requirements I need to meet were 70% in Grade 12 English and achieving my OSSD. Receiving an offer of admission from Carleton reaffirmed that these were the requirements, as my offer was conditional. Carleton's further offer of residence, a $2,500 scholarship renewable for four years, and a $1,000 bursary extends my belief that Carleton is on a quest to gain a student such as me.

I am currently training with the Canadian Forces through a Co-Operative education course. This requires approximately 30 hours per week, and I further work for about 25 hours per week. Maintaining such a work load along with my school schedule was not feasible, which is when the course was taken off my timetable. The Canadian Forces requires my time during the month of July to complete further training. However, with these new revelations I would now be required to miss this essential training to complete a sixth course. Completing such a course would require me to put off the military training, and further force me to move cross-province only a few days before beginning my program with Carleton.

It is my sincere desire that you will maintain my offer of admission without the sixth course. My transcript lists several excellent marks which are above the requirements for several of Carleton's courses. My letter of extenuating circumstances also demonstrates a great background of high school achievement and excellence, along with hard work and determination outside of my school life. Having to complete such a course along with military training and moving to Ottawa would be difficult and pressed very short for time.

I ask for your understanding in these circumstances and that an offer can be made based off my excellence achieved in all of my other courses. Please contact me via email or the phone numbers listed below.

Yours Truly,


Has anyone else heard of this happening? I was ecstatic about going to Carleton. Now all I can do is go to summer school or apply again next year. Does anyone think they'll make an exception to their six grade 12 rule?


WOW!!! EPIC fail on your guidance department for not making it absolutely clear that 6 U/M level courses in Grade 12 were requisite for university admissions. If it ends up failing, which it most likely will(tough break), go back for an extra semester and take some courses to make up for your lack of necessary credits.

UWO '12 Social Science
naftali
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:43:41 PM
Rank: Frosh
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/12/2008
Posts: 4
Location: Winnipeg
Yikes. That really sucks. I hate to say it, but I don't think it's likely that they'll accept you anyway, even with the explanatory letter. They might accept you if you give them proof that you'll be taking a sixth entry level course as summer school, but I can see how that would be difficult what with your job and training etc. Bear in mind that if they don't accept you, all is not lost. True, it would be a huge change of plans for you to go from attending Carleton to not attending any University at all, but it would give you a chance to make more money (money is always good), and a year off (or, a year with one grade 12 course, which is a lot less stressful than a full year of highschool) can be good for the mental health. Especially since you seemed painfully swamped with your workload now; you don't want to burn out. Some Ivy Leagues in the states actually encourage taking a year off, and I gotta say, it saved my life. Don't give up on getting in this year, but don't fear the possibility of rejection too much, either.
malilini
Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:04:24 PM

Rank: Frosh
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/10/2008
Posts: 48
D.Dickin wrote:
Since when (and why?) are the requirements one thing to get admitted, but another to actually go there?


Since... always? You get admitted based on a mix of grade 11 and 12 marks (particularly if you're applying before March, for scholarship purposes) and then send in a list of grade 12 courses you will be taking (they see it on your transcript), and continuously update the school with new marks so they can make sure you're fulfilling all the requirements.
If it wasn't like that, we wouldn't even have to go to grade 12. After March we can all just go for a nice long vacation - we've been accepted.

But again, it's really not your fault entirely, maybe only for not taking the initiative to find out the exact requirements (It's your future here). You can pin this one on guidance counsellors. It's weird your counsellor did not notice until now? I know it's a custom in my school to do credit counts at the beginning of grade 12 to make sure we all have enough credits for programs we want to go into. I sort of assumed other counsellors did similar to check that nobody gets screwed.

This teaches you a nice lesson to never rely on other people when things are as serious as the matter at hand.

Hope it works out smile
teapartiesarefun
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:28:51 AM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 313
Location: COWTOWN
bigbadsheep wrote:


WOW!!! EPIC fail on your guidance department for making it absolutely clear that 6 U/M level courses in Grade 12 were requisite for university admissions.


ditto. for us, it's absolutely MANDATORY that each grade 12 student meets personally with the counselor to see if you have the minimum requirements for university. It's their freaking job!!! they have a masters degree for gods sakes.

Math/CA Waterloo '13
alys98
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:51:25 AM
Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 389
Location: Paris, Ontario
It is also your responsibility to make sure you have the minimum requirements needed to be admitted into university as well, you can't solely place the blame on the guidance counsellor.

Yes, you will have academic advising available to you, but it is mainly your responsibility to ensure that you have all of your requirements acheived in order to graduate....so what are you going to do then, leave everything up to an advisor, that only comes into contact with you, when YOU make an appointment.

I'm really surprised that you didn't know you needed 6 U/M grade 12 credits.

Success is not the key to happiness, happiness is the key to success. If you love what you do in life, you will be a success!!
D.Dickin
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:38:25 AM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
Kaylya wrote:
You do not need 6 grade 12 courses to complete the OSSD but it is the basic requirement for university entrance in Ontario for Ontario students. Some out of province schools may take you with only 5, but usually they look at 6 as well (even if the "standard" in their province is 4 or 5).

The reference to grade 11 courses is that they consider those marks along with early grade 12 marks for early admission.

I think it is possible that they could make an exception, but don't count on it.


So early admission is different from actually being admitted? Why was I accepted with the marks from grade 11 and 12 (and they're still maintaining the offer to this day) yet I'm said to be ineligible...

alys98 wrote:
I'm really surprised that you didn't know you needed 6 U/M grade 12 credits.


Top six senior-level courses (grade 11, 12, and OAC) was drilled into our heads since grade 9. That's all I've been told and all I've heard from others in my area.

malilini wrote:
But again, it's really not your fault entirely, maybe only for not taking the initiative to find out the exact requirements (It's your future here). You can pin this one on guidance counsellors. It's weird your counsellor did not notice until now? I know it's a custom in my school to do credit counts at the beginning of grade 12 to make sure we all have enough credits for programs we want to go into. I sort of assumed other counsellors did similar to check that nobody gets screwed.


It was even guidance's recommendation that I drop the courseexclamation I also agreed, as Data Management wasn't important, nor was it feasible when I was also doing Grade 12 English and military Co-Op. Eighty hour weeks aren't fun....

Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
Stringer
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:45:20 AM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,396
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
D.Dickin wrote:
Kaylya wrote:
You do not need 6 grade 12 courses to complete the OSSD but it is the basic requirement for university entrance in Ontario for Ontario students. Some out of province schools may take you with only 5, but usually they look at 6 as well (even if the "standard" in their province is 4 or 5).

The reference to grade 11 courses is that they consider those marks along with early grade 12 marks for early admission.

I think it is possible that they could make an exception, but don't count on it.


So early admission is different from actually being admitted? Why was I accepted with the marks from grade 11 and 12 (and they're still maintaining the offer to this day) yet I'm said to be ineligible...

alys98 wrote:
I'm really surprised that you didn't know you needed 6 U/M grade 12 credits.


Top six senior-level courses (grade 11, 12, and OAC) was drilled into our heads since grade 9. That's all I've been told and all I've heard from others in my area.

malilini wrote:
But again, it's really not your fault entirely, maybe only for not taking the initiative to find out the exact requirements (It's your future here). You can pin this one on guidance counsellors. It's weird your counsellor did not notice until now? I know it's a custom in my school to do credit counts at the beginning of grade 12 to make sure we all have enough credits for programs we want to go into. I sort of assumed other counsellors did similar to check that nobody gets screwed.


It was even guidance's recommendation that I drop the courseexclamation I also agreed, as Data Management wasn't important, nor was it feasible when I was also doing Grade 12 English and military Co-Op. Eighty hour weeks aren't fun....


You were accepted because you were on pace to graduate with the appropriate requirements. You dropped a course after being accepted, making you ineligible to attend university in the Fall.

Senior = Grade 12 from what I have heard. Grade 11 is Junior. Anyways, it's all semantics now. The reality is you need to either find a way to get that credit or make an alternative plan.

-Stringer
alys98
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:46:13 AM
Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 389
Location: Paris, Ontario
Stringer wrote:
D.Dickin wrote:
Kaylya wrote:
You do not need 6 grade 12 courses to complete the OSSD but it is the basic requirement for university entrance in Ontario for Ontario students. Some out of province schools may take you with only 5, but usually they look at 6 as well (even if the "standard" in their province is 4 or 5).

The reference to grade 11 courses is that they consider those marks along with early grade 12 marks for early admission.

I think it is possible that they could make an exception, but don't count on it.


So early admission is different from actually being admitted? Why was I accepted with the marks from grade 11 and 12 (and they're still maintaining the offer to this day) yet I'm said to be ineligible...

alys98 wrote:
I'm really surprised that you didn't know you needed 6 U/M grade 12 credits.


Top six senior-level courses (grade 11, 12, and OAC) was drilled into our heads since grade 9. That's all I've been told and all I've heard from others in my area.

malilini wrote:
But again, it's really not your fault entirely, maybe only for not taking the initiative to find out the exact requirements (It's your future here). You can pin this one on guidance counsellors. It's weird your counsellor did not notice until now? I know it's a custom in my school to do credit counts at the beginning of grade 12 to make sure we all have enough credits for programs we want to go into. I sort of assumed other counsellors did similar to check that nobody gets screwed.


It was even guidance's recommendation that I drop the courseexclamation I also agreed, as Data Management wasn't important, nor was it feasible when I was also doing Grade 12 English and military Co-Op. Eighty hour weeks aren't fun....


You were accepted because you were on pace to graduate with the appropriate requirements. You dropped a course after being accepted, making you ineligible to attend university in the Fall.

Senior = Grade 12 from what I have heard. Grade 11 is Junior. Anyways, it's all semantics now. The reality is you need to either find a way to get that credit or make an alternative plan.



That's what I was also going to say. I always thought senior level courses meant grade 12.

Grade 9 - Freshman

Grade 10 - Sophmore

Grade 11 - Junior

Grade 12 - Senior

Have your friends who attend your school also been placed in a similar position? If so, then it would definitely lead me to believe that information given to you, by your school counsellor, an OUAC representative, teacher, etc was wrong.
But if it's only you who is in this situation, then I definitely think you misunderstood the information, and maybe when your guidance counsellor showed you the info, they just thought that it was so clear, that they didn't really need to clarify what 6 Senior level U or M courses meant.

I find it really difficult to believe that you have never before seen these requirements until now. Even if my guidance counsellor didn't tell me about them, I still would have found out. I attended many presentations given by various universities at my high school, all of the presentors stressed the 6 U/M grade 12 courses, and/or people asked about them. I also received so many university undergraduate applicant guides, and all this information was given.

Success is not the key to happiness, happiness is the key to success. If you love what you do in life, you will be a success!!
D.Dickin
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:47:40 AM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
Senior is Grade 11, Grade 12, and OAC:

OUAC wrote:
The universities request that only senior level courses (Grades 11,12 and OAC) be reported to the OUAC.


Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
D.Dickin
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:48:43 AM

Rank: Student Council
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 393
Location: Kitchener, ON.
alys98 wrote:
I find it really difficult to believe that you have never before seen these requirements until now. Even if my guidance counsellor didn't tell me about them, I still would have found out. I attended many presentations given by various universities at my high school, all of the presentors stressed the 6 U/M grade 12 courses, and/or people asked about them. I also received so many university undergraduate applicant guides, and all this information was given.


Everything that was stressed to me was the top six. Top six grade 11 and 12. Top six of these courses would be counted.

Accepted to Carleton University, Honours Bachelor of Arts in Law
Kaylya
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:23:58 AM

Rank: Student Body Vice-President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 716
Location: Ottawa
D.Dickin wrote:
alys98 wrote:
I find it really difficult to believe that you have never before seen these requirements until now. Even if my guidance counsellor didn't tell me about them, I still would have found out. I attended many presentations given by various universities at my high school, all of the presentors stressed the 6 U/M grade 12 courses, and/or people asked about them. I also received so many university undergraduate applicant guides, and all this information was given.


Everything that was stressed to me was the top six. Top six grade 11 and 12. Top six of these courses would be counted.


First of all, by that logic you wouldn't need any grade 12 courses at all. Does that make sense to you?

Second, you were accepted on the basis that your grade 11 marks were good, your first grade 12 marks were good, *and* you were signed up for the requirements at that time.

Carleton's Requirements

# OSSD with six Grade 12 courses at the 4U or 4M (U/C) level (prerequisite courses must be at the 4U level)
# Grade 12 English 4U is recommended for all degrees
# Grade 12 4U/4M credits for co-op work experience will not be considered as part of the six courses
# Students are expected to present a minimum percentage grade and prerequisite average depending on the program for which they apply, see below .



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