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I think they are just taking advantage of their position. They know their service is an important one to the city of Toronto, and they are taking advantage of that. So yeah, greedy is exactly what they are. But, then again, who doesn't want more money?
Honours BMSc Specialization in Medical Science UWO '09
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mynameismattgotmlgo wrote:It is hardly like these people are pulling in 100 k + easy. The bus driver talked about in the article D.Dickin provided earned a base pay (after 20 years of service) of 54 k a year, but he had to work his butt off doing overtime to pull in the other 46 k he earned. That is a lot of overtime. However, they also have option of getting all statutory holidays off with a paid leave. I'm a soldier with the Canadian Forces. In four months I'll have done just under 700 hours (on top of work, school, getting ready for university, and, you know, having a life when possible). Suddenly that 1000 work year doesn't seem like so much... And what do I make? $80.00 per "day" (any time over six hours).
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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^ I didn't say life is fair.
Honours BMSc Specialization in Medical Science UWO '09
Bachelor of Pharmacy Alberta '13 ???
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D.Dickin wrote:mynameismattgotmlgo wrote:It is hardly like these people are pulling in 100 k + easy. The bus driver talked about in the article D.Dickin provided earned a base pay (after 20 years of service) of 54 k a year, but he had to work his butt off doing overtime to pull in the other 46 k he earned. That is a lot of overtime. However, they also have option of getting all statutory holidays off with a paid leave. I'm a soldier with the Canadian Forces. In four months I'll have done just under 700 hours (on top of work, school, getting ready for university, and, you know, having a life when possible). Suddenly that 1000 work year doesn't seem like so much... And what do I make? $80.00 per "day" (any time over six hours). There are some pulling >100k
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Everyone always wants more money, in most cases, that's a very understandable thing. I respect the TTC wholeheartedly, and I love them because I've been riding the bus my entire life to get to school, work, and to other places. I just don't like how they handled the situation. I think that, they made enough of a statement by threatening to strike, but actually doing it in such a nasty way wasn't called for. While I do agree with the legislation passed on Sunday, I still feel sort of bad for the drivers who might've really needed a drastic change in their pay and/or benefits. I've already been doing it but when I get off the bus, I'll continue to say thanks to the driver, because I think it makes at least a small difference in their day.
McMaster '12!
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Feona wrote:Everyone always wants more money, in most cases, that's a very understandable thing. I respect the TTC wholeheartedly, and I love them because I've been riding the bus my entire life to get to school, work, and to other places. I just don't like how they handled the situation. I think that, they made enough of a statement by threatening to strike, but actually doing it in such a nasty way wasn't called for. While I do agree with the legislation passed on Sunday, I still feel sort of bad for the drivers who might've really needed a drastic change in their pay and/or benefits. I've already been doing it but when I get off the bus, I'll continue to say thanks to the driver, because I think it makes at least a small difference in their day. Definately. Same. However, I really hope they are declared "essential" and cannot strike any longer. The drivers seem happy to be back at work, and have nothing to do with striking. It's not all of them that makes these descisions (I beleive). In fact, today, a driver did something I've never seen before, and being the first few hours back at work, I doubt its a coincidence. My school is on the right side of the street on a corner, and the bus stop is on the other side. If the light is red, and the driver is nice, they MIGHT let us off at the corner where they stop at the light. TODAY: The guy pulls to the right lane, and stops right in front of the school (50 ft. before the intersection, no cars infront of him), in the middle of a green, and lets us all off. Amazing.
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I'm not sure how well a boycott could work, seeing as how many people rely on the TTC (including myself). Its just like the gas station boycotts - the few people who do boycott it for that day end up going back the next day.
I think this strike was completely ridiculous. They had an amazing deal and they turned it down, and screwed over many people in the process. Its just another case of a greedy, useless union. They already get a lot of money for a jobs that don't necessarily need that much skill.
If you really want to complain about it, write to a city councillor and try and get your message across. Not paying fares, being rude, boycotts, etc. aren't going to do anything to improve the situation.
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I forgot to add, giving the TTC essential service status doesn't seem like a good thing. Typically, it makes it easier for them to get their demands, which will cost us even more money. Also, Giambrone said it would not take away their ability to launch work-to-rule strikes.
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Shismo wrote:I forgot to add, giving the TTC essential service status doesn't seem like a good thing. Typically, it makes it easier for them to get their demands, which will cost us even more money. Also, Giambrone said it would not take away their ability to launch work-to-rule strikes. Cost increases aren't the real issue are they? I realise they get enough in many people's opinions, but there will be a limit, it won't give them any more power than these strikes do. And of course, they can't strike, which is the worst part.
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eco wrote:Shismo wrote:I forgot to add, giving the TTC essential service status doesn't seem like a good thing. Typically, it makes it easier for them to get their demands, which will cost us even more money. Also, Giambrone said it would not take away their ability to launch work-to-rule strikes. Cost increases aren't the real issue are they? I realise they get enough in many people's opinions, but there will be a limit, it won't give them any more power than these strikes do. And of course, they can't strike, which is the worst part. They can still do work-to-rule which if they do, will still cause a mess.
UWO '12 Social Science
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D.Dickin wrote:Yep, that's almost $35 Million that went to people who rip pieces of paper and turn a wheel in circles. That's not to downplay their jobs: transit workers get millions of people to where they need to go every day in a relatively safe environment. However, the only reason they're making more than some lawyers and doctors is because of their union, who realizes they have an enormous grasp on society and thus, they can pull strings to force the city (and now the provincial government) to do what they want. As something more close to home for me, check out this story. The former CEO of Grand River Hospital made $389,000 of Waterloo Region's money without ever working a single day. Ironically, the hospital's deficit for the year came out to $300,000. That's almost half a million dollars that could have been used to fund treatments, get better hospital beds, or get your family member in for testing much quicker. We're lucky fast food establishments don't have a union. Your $1.39 double cheeseburger would easily be $5.50 and the store would be closed on all statutory holidays! By the way, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada only makes $334,100 per year. Do you think the TTC ticket ripper is worth one third of the Chief Justice? i remember reading something about the grand river thing in the Record. ugh.
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eco wrote:Shismo wrote:I forgot to add, giving the TTC essential service status doesn't seem like a good thing. Typically, it makes it easier for them to get their demands, which will cost us even more money. Also, Giambrone said it would not take away their ability to launch work-to-rule strikes. Cost increases aren't the real issue are they? I realise they get enough in many people's opinions, but there will be a limit, it won't give them any more power than these strikes do. And of course, they can't strike, which is the worst part. Not the main issue as, of course, service takes precedent. However, as I said in my post and as bigbadsheep said, it does NOT remove their ability to strike. They can still do a work-to-rule strike, which wouldn't be as bad as a full-fledged strike but still really crappy. And considering how much money everyone pays for the TTC (through taxes, not fares), we should be getting a much better, more modern system. If the money were spent better and the city didn't have to put even more money into it (for raises, new agreements, etc.) that would benefit the city as a whole (which is the purpose of transit in the first place).
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bacon wrote:D.Dickin wrote:Another outrage is what the union has demanded. This is the same union who has three TTC ticket-takers over $100,000 salaries each year ( check it out). That's someone who stands in a booth and rips pieces of paper... come on... Darn. and to think the kids who do the exact same thing at the CNE/Ontario Place get paid like 8-9 bucks an hour...  That's because the kids have no leverage. If they could actually band together to take action, no one would care because it doesn't affect us. Unions are a detrimental thing to society. There are countless examples of this. The WGA went on strike for ~100 days and guess what? It resulted in many people who lost their jobs altogether (as smaller shows were cancelled and never brought back), and its going to take forever for most people to make up the money lost during the strike. Another example is the UAW. Its countless strikes on American Axle resulted in many shift closures and decrease production, which led to losses for GM. And guess what? Now AA wants to move to Mexico, and GM had to temporarily switch to rival company, Dana. To provide the remaining components, they had to brought in from Mexico rather than the USA. The year before, GM posted something like a 37.5 BILLION dollar loss despite selling more cars and trucks than anyone else. How does that happen? Management and worker issues is how.
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Shismo wrote:bacon wrote:D.Dickin wrote:Another outrage is what the union has demanded. This is the same union who has three TTC ticket-takers over $100,000 salaries each year ( check it out). That's someone who stands in a booth and rips pieces of paper... come on... Darn. and to think the kids who do the exact same thing at the CNE/Ontario Place get paid like 8-9 bucks an hour... That's because the kids have no leverage. If they could actually band together to take action, no one would give a darn because it doesn't affect us. Unions are a detrimental thing to society. There are countless examples of this. The WGA went on strike for ~100 days and guess what? It resulted in many people who lost their jobs altogether (as smaller shows were cancelled and never brought back), and its going to take forever for most people to make up the money lost during the strike. Another example is the UAW. Its countless strikes on American Axle resulted in many shift closures and decrease production, which led to losses for GM. And guess what? Now AA wants to move to Mexico, and GM had to temporarily switch to rival company, Dana. To provide the remaining components, they had to brought in from Mexico rather than the USA. The year before, GM posted something like a 37.5 BILLION dollar loss despite selling more cars and trucks than anyone else. How does that happen? Management and worker issues is how. Without unions, employees can basically be treated like garbage. Why would a company pay somebody more than minimum wage when there's a line around the block with people willing to work for minimum wage?
-Stringer
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Stringer wrote:Without unions, employees can basically be treated like garbage. Why would a company pay somebody more than minimum wage when there's a line around the block with people willing to work for minimum wage? That's not true. Look at companies like most fast food businesses (McDonald's, Wendy's, Harvey's, Tim Hortons, etc.) and a lot of retail stores. (Wal Mart, Zellers, HBC, etc.). None of them have unions yet they're excellent with customer service and well known for their employee discounts, wages, and being a good place to work. The only thing the union does is make people realize that if an entire store's worth of employees walk out, the owner has no one to run the store. It's that power that gets them unfair wage increases and enormous benefit packages; it has nothing to do with them being treated "like garbage".
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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D.Dickin wrote:Stringer wrote:Without unions, employees can basically be treated like garbage. Why would a company pay somebody more than minimum wage when there's a line around the block with people willing to work for minimum wage? That's not true. Look at companies like most fast food businesses (McDonald's, Wendy's, Harvey's, Tim Hortons, etc.) and a lot of retail stores. (Wal Mart, Zellers, HBC, etc.). None of them have unions yet they're excellent with customer service and well known for their employee discounts, wages, and being a good place to work. The only thing the union does is make people realize that if an entire store's worth of employees walk out, the owner has no one to run the store. It's that power that gets them unfair wage increases and enormous benefit packages; it has nothing to do with them being treated "like garbage". That's completely incorrect. Unions are really important and you’re wrong in speaking about them in such a derogatory manner. Without unions employees have no effective means of reporting labour law violations or filing grievances. So people who are being mistreated at work or are required to do things that are against the law have no other option except to enter a really drawn out legal process. With a union in place there is a union rep present who can take grievances and deal with them almost immediately. Also unions really hate going on strike and only use this measure when there is no other means of solving the issue. You're wrong in saying that unions use strikes as a threat to employers. Unions use fair democratic processes in collective bargaining, no threats or anything like that. They only strike when the employer is being unreasonable. The benefit packages that they lobby for are rarely 'enormous' either. Life/health insurance, pension plans and so on are pretty much life essentials. Why shouldn't employees ask for services that will help them work longer and more effectively? You should have more respect for unions because they have been a huge force in pretty much shaping society. The fact that we have socialized education, an 8 hour work day, a five day work week, and so many other things we take for granted are all because of unions.
1 We are from Mac! 2 A little bit louder! 3 I still can't hear you! 4 more more more... McMaster Class of 2011
Combined Honours Political Science and Philosophy
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D.Dickin wrote:Stringer wrote:Without unions, employees can basically be treated like garbage. Why would a company pay somebody more than minimum wage when there's a line around the block with people willing to work for minimum wage? That's not true. Look at companies like most fast food businesses (McDonald's, Wendy's, Harvey's, Tim Hortons, etc.) and a lot of retail stores. (Wal Mart, Zellers, HBC, etc.). None of them have unions yet they're excellent with customer service and well known for their employee discounts, wages, and being a good place to work. The only thing the union does is make people realize that if an entire store's worth of employees walk out, the owner has no one to run the store. It's that power that gets them unfair wage increases and enormous benefit packages; it has nothing to do with them being treated "like garbage". LOL. Are you kidding? http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/Do a Google search and you'll find some information that will change your views. WalMart a good employer? Has your head been buried in the sand the past couple of years? There's been numerous major stories in the news about how bad of employer they are. Same goes for most of the businesses you just listed. Also, look up why unions were created. Business hold the upper hand against employees, and still do even with unions. It's about trying to close that gap so your average working Canadian has a chance to survive and feed their family.
-Stringer
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aibrean wrote:Without unions employees have no effective means of reporting labour law violations or filing grievances. So people who are being mistreated at work or are required to do things that are against the law have no other option except to enter a really drawn out legal process. With a union in place there is a union rep present who can take grievances and deal with them almost immediately. So that, uh, Ministry of Labour does nothing to help workers with their grievances? Workers who are being abused or mistreated can't go to the Ministry for assistance? Quote:Also unions really hate going on strike and only use this measure when there is no other means of solving the issue. You're wrong in saying that unions use strikes as a threat to employers. Unions use fair democratic processes in collective bargaining, no threats or anything like that. They only strike when the employer is being unreasonable. It is the union's goal to get the best possible deal for the workers while maintaining the lowest amount of work time and effort. If the company's management doesn't meet their requirements, they threaten to go on strike. Management budges a little bit but that still isn't usually good enough. You can do a lot when you have more than half the work force agreeing to stop producing for a company. A union's job is to extort the most amount of money from the company with the workers having to do the least amount of work. Stringer wrote:Do a Google search and you'll find some information that will change your views. WalMart a good employer? Has your head been buried in the sand the past couple of years? There's been numerous major stories in the news about how bad of employer they are. Same goes for most of the businesses you just listed. Most of the businesses I listed have been so successful because of their lack of unions. Unions suck money from the company, and ultimately from the employees with dues and strikes for disagreements. Could you imagine a union worker at a McDonald's or Wendy's? Your meal would come to $12 because the staff are making $14 an hour to put meat onto a grill. Then when you ask for no pickles they'll complain to the union rep. and have the customer kicked from the store.
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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Wow you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to unions and industrial relations D.Dickin.
I suggest you educate yourself and stop making stupid statements with no fact whatsoever.
1 We are from Mac! 2 A little bit louder! 3 I still can't hear you! 4 more more more...
McMaster Class of 2011
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D.Dickins, where the heck do you get your facts? You make some of the most outrageous arguments I've ever heard. The job of a union is not to create an environment where workers work less for more pay, they are there to ensure fair, equal treatment.
Example: My friend worked at a certain grocery store's deli section. He cut his finger badly using the deli slicer and had to go to hospital to get it taken care of. As a result of his injury, the grocery store decided to cut back his hours, and not give him any compensation for the time he was off. It turned out to be the company's fault for providing insufficient training, and they were also missing a piece of safety equipment (it was one of those chainmail type gloves you need to wear when cutting). He went to his union and was able to get paid for the shifts he'd been denied since it was their fault he'd been injured.
OH YEAHHH!!! Unions are really a detriment to society.
UWO '12 Social Science
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