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D.Dickin wrote:It's a peacekeeping mission. Killing insurgents keeps the peace Afghanistan has been waiting for. It is not peacekeeping. Canada, along with many other nations, attacked Afghanistan to eliminate insurgents. That's like saying America is "peacekeeping" in Iraq because they removed a violent dictator.
-Stringer
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D.Dickin wrote:Redrose27 wrote:well i don't know if that's true
1) we're really behind many countries on environmental issues
2) we're something like 14th for peacekeeping. bangladesh is number 1 i think
3) yes i agree our landscape and natural resources are truly marvelous BUT
4) our water and oil reserves are being quickly consumed, not necessarily by us but in large part the US We're talking about what we're known for, not that we're the "best in the world". There will always be room for improvement in every country around the world. The government has taken large steps to correct problems and find new solutions that will work best for the country. anniepoohh wrote:i wouldn't exactly call their involvement in the war in afghanistan right now a humanitarian or peacemaking operation. Then you would be mistaken. The Canadian Forces is currently in Afghanistan as humanitarians and peacekeepers, along with helping rebuild a strong and stable government for Afghanistan. It is a UN Sanctioned peacekeeping mission. See here for more information. P.S. We're not at war in Afghanistan. Be very careful with that term. Quote:D.Dickin, your idea of our national identity is the one that our government wants us to believe. So we're just being brainwashed into thinking this is what everyone thinks of us? No one else in the world really thinks of us this way? Quote:you'd make a great lawyer /or politician though, congrats Awesome. I'd like to be both in the near future. University will kick it off for me  Miss wrote:um, we're kind of not really a very peaceful nation, and although we're concentrating on rebuilding infrastructure/pushing out the taliban in afghanistan, we are still a nation at war. We are? When did Canada declare war? and of course, we should always take what the government website tells us as absolute truth, and as long as everyone else in the world agrees with what the government wants everyone to believe and with what you believe, who am i to question it?
Math/CA Waterloo '13
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Stringer wrote:It is not peacekeeping. Canada, along with many other nations, attacked Afghanistan to eliminate insurgents. That's like saying America is "peacekeeping" in Iraq because they removed a violent dictator. Canada's role in Afghanistan is different than the U.S.'s role in Iraq. You can't comare the two. Canada is peacekeeping in Afghanistan - they are rebuilding its infrastructure, its own identity, and helping families get back their homes and rights as people. The insurgents that are killed are because they're insurgents! Peacekeeping does sometimes involve killing those who fire at you first. Take a look here, here, here, and here. anniepoohh wrote:and of course, we should always take what the government website tells us as absolute truth, and as long as everyone else in the world agrees with what the government wants everyone to believe and with what you believe, who am i to question it? Your conspiracy theory on the government somehow hiding information from us means nothing, unless, of course, you can prove to me they're hiding the real facts behind the war and their operations.
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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D.Dickin wrote:Stringer wrote:It is not peacekeeping. Canada, along with many other nations, attacked Afghanistan to eliminate insurgents. That's like saying America is "peacekeeping" in Iraq because they removed a violent dictator. Canada's role in Afghanistan is different than the U.S.'s role in Iraq. You can't comare the two. Canada is peacekeeping in Afghanistan - they are rebuilding its infrastructure, its own identity, and helping families get back their homes and rights as people. The insurgents that are killed are because they're insurgents! Peacekeeping does sometimes involve killing those who fire at you first. Take a look here, here, here, and here. anniepoohh wrote:and of course, we should always take what the government website tells us as absolute truth, and as long as everyone else in the world agrees with what the government wants everyone to believe and with what you believe, who am i to question it? Your conspiracy theory on the government somehow hiding information from us means nothing, unless, of course, you can prove to me they're hiding the real facts behind the war and their operations. Are you kidding me? Canada went to Afghanistan for the same reason the US went. They are removing a group, by killing them. Read your own links. They clearly state that Canada was in Afghanistan to clear out the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
-Stringer
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D.Dickin wrote:
Your conspiracy theory on the government somehow hiding information from us means nothing, unless, of course, you can prove to me they're hiding the real facts behind the war and their operations.
I can't prove this anymore than I can prove that Iraq does or doesn't have weapons of mass destruction. I can never prove whether or not Iraq does...unless you go in yourself and inspect every square meter of the place, and probably underground too. Which is never gonna happen. It's not about conspiracy theories...it's a simple matter of knowing not to hold what the government/media/society tells us as unquestionable truth.
Math/CA Waterloo '13
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Stringer wrote:Are you kidding me? Canada went to Afghanistan for the same reason the US went. They are removing a group, by killing them. Read your own links. They clearly state that Canada was in Afghanistan to clear out the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Not even close. The United States went to Afghanistan to "capture Osama bin Laden, destroy al-Qaeda, and remove the Taliban regime which had provided support and safe harbor to al-Qaeda", beginning on October 7, 2001. Canada didn't arrive until January and February of 2002, where its goals were to "Defend Canada's national interests; Ensure Canadian leadership in world affairs; and Help Afghanistan rebuild". Those are two very different purposes. In other words, the U.S. was there to ensure the Taliban were taken out of power, while Canadians are there to help rebuild and ensure Afghanistan is established. Even if Canada's intentions were identical to the United States', it would still be a peacekeeping mission, not a war. anniepoohh wrote:I can't prove this anymore than I can prove that Iraq does or doesn't have weapons of mass destruction. I can never prove whether or not Iraq does...unless you go in yourself and inspect every square meter of the place, and probably underground too. Which is never gonna happen.
It's not about conspiracy theories...it's a simple matter of knowing not to hold what the government/media/society tells us as unquestionable truth. It is a conspiracy theory. You're suggesting the government is purposely hiding information from us and that we're just blindly following it without any sort of direction into what the truth is.
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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Step 1: I strongly recommend that people in this thread go see/rent/procure Charlie Wilson's War. That is, if you'd like an introduction to the real reasons our soldiers are fighting and dying in Afghanistan.
Step 2: I strongly recommend that people in this thread quit watching CBC and Global News, and to stop reading the National Post, Calgary Herald, Ottawa Citizen, and any other media outlet that is owned and controlled by the Asper family. (Far more than you probably realize. Google it.)
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D.Dickin wrote:Not even close. The United States went to Afghanistan to "capture Osama bin Laden, destroy al-Qaeda, and remove the Taliban regime which had provided support and safe harbor to al-Qaeda", beginning on October 7, 2001. Canada didn't arrive until January and February of 2002, where its goals were to "Defend Canada's national interests; Ensure Canadian leadership in world affairs; and Help Afghanistan rebuild". Those are two very different purposes. In other words, the U.S. was there to ensure the Taliban were taken out of power, while Canadians are there to help rebuild and ensure Afghanistan is established.
Even if Canada's intentions were identical to the United States', it would still be a peacekeeping mission, not a war.
LOL. Wikipedia wrote:After the attacks on September 11, 2001, the Canadian Forces immediately deployed its elite special operations unit Joint Task Force Two. It was used in a vital role in calling airstrikes and directly confronting Al-Qaeda and Taliban positions. Once the regular forces were on the ground in January-February 2002 the Canadians were used supporting the war effort until Operation Anaconda began. During the operation, a Canadian sniper team broke, and re-broke, the kill record for a long distance sniper kill set in the Vietnam War by a U.S. Marine, Staff Sgt Carlos Hathcock. Operation Anaconda was also the first time since the Korean War that Canadian soldiers relieved American soldiers in a combat operation. How is removing a government a peace-keeping mission? That is the definition of a war. They went into Afghanistan and attacked the government and its soldiers. Wikipedia wrote:On October 28, 2006, anti-war groups from across Canada organized rallies in 40 cities and towns. Themes of the demonstrations included demands that the troops be brought home from Afghanistan and demands that the mission of the Canadian Forces in that country shift from a combat role to a peace keeping and humanitarian presence. Participation varied from city to city, ranging from several dozen to several thousand. Wait, I thought they were "peacekeeping"?
-Stringer
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D.Dickin wrote:Stringer wrote:Are you kidding me? Canada went to Afghanistan for the same reason the US went. They are removing a group, by killing them. Read your own links. They clearly state that Canada was in Afghanistan to clear out the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Not even close. The United States went to Afghanistan to "capture Osama bin Laden, destroy al-Qaeda, and remove the Taliban regime which had provided support and safe harbor to al-Qaeda", beginning on October 7, 2001. Canada didn't arrive until January and February of 2002, where its goals were to "Defend Canada's national interests; Ensure Canadian leadership in world affairs; and Help Afghanistan rebuild". Those are two very different purposes. In other words, the U.S. was there to ensure the Taliban were taken out of power, while Canadians are there to help rebuild and ensure Afghanistan is established. Even if Canada's intentions were identical to the United States', it would still be a peacekeeping mission, not a war. Stringer is right. I suppose, Dickin, you believe the Vietnam war wasn't actually a war either, since the US never officially declared war on Vietnam. Canadian troops are mounting substantial military offensives to seek and destroy the enemy in Afghanistan by lethal force. You can try and sanitize it any way you want, but you aren't fooling anyone. We all know it's war.
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okay guys, let's compromise. Canada is currently involved in "peace enforcement" in afghanistan
"My parents live in Ohio; I live in the moment." -himym.
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D.Dickin wrote:
It is a conspiracy theory. You're suggesting the government is purposely hiding information from us and that we're just blindly following it without any sort of direction into what the truth is.
No...I'm suggesting that YOU are just blindly following it without any sort of direction into what the truth is. And I cannot for the LIFE of me believe that ANYONE would actually consider the canadian government's website and wikipedia as impartial, trustworthy sources of information which may be used in a supposedly objective debate.
Math/CA Waterloo '13
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D.Dickin wrote:It's a peacekeeping mission. Killing insurgents keeps the peace Afghanistan has been waiting for. Dude I live in the Middle East, I know for sure that the people of Iraq/Afghanistan want the American/Canadian Armies out of their countries. They were better off without them. It's just the media that makes you believe otherwise.
University of Waterloo - Mathematics/Chartered Accountancy '13 All you UWaterloo haters will go to hell. Say "Hi" to Katy Perry for me.
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aai_nhl wrote:D.Dickin wrote:It's a peacekeeping mission. Killing insurgents keeps the peace Afghanistan has been waiting for. Dude I live in the Middle East, I know for sure that the people of Iraq/Afghanistan want the American/Canadian Armies out of their countries. They were better of without them. It's just the media that makes you believe otherwise. not to mention that Peacekeeping is KEEPING the PEACE, NOT Creating it. Dude doesn't know what peacekeeping means.
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Redrose27 wrote:aai_nhl wrote:D.Dickin wrote:It's a peacekeeping mission. Killing insurgents keeps the peace Afghanistan has been waiting for. Dude I live in the Middle East, I know for sure that the people of Iraq/Afghanistan want the American/Canadian Armies out of their countries. They were better of without them. It's just the media that makes you believe otherwise. not to mention that Peacekeeping is KEEPING the PEACE, NOT Creating it. Dude doesn't know what peacekeeping means. Rolling out loud.
University of Waterloo - Mathematics/Chartered Accountancy '13 All you UWaterloo haters will go to hell. Say "Hi" to Katy Perry for me.
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I think the reason why there is the pressure that there is to scaleback from Afghanistan is because it is not the typical Peacekeeping mission.
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Shismo wrote:I think the reason why there is the pressure that there is to scaleback from Afghanistan is because it is not the typical Peacekeeping mission. It isn't a peacekeeping mission at all... Where do people come up with this stuff?
-Stringer
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Stringer wrote:Shismo wrote:I think the reason why there is the pressure that there is to scaleback from Afghanistan is because it is not the typical Peacekeeping mission. It isn't a peacekeeping mission at all... Where do people come up with this stuff? Sorry, I should've written that a bit better. What I meant was that its not a peacekeeping mission, which is the reason why there is as much opposition to it as there is, and that had it actually been one there would be more public support for it.
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Stringer wrote:Wait, I thought they were "peacekeeping"? And they are. Unfortunately many people get Canada's role as peacekeepers mixed up with other countries' roles. nauru wrote:Stringer is right. I suppose, Dickin, you believe the Vietnam war wasn't actually a war either, since the US never officially declared war on Vietnam. There's more to a country being at war than just the declaration. In this case, Canada's involvement in Afghanistan operations is no where near that of a nation at war. Quote:Canadian troops are mounting substantial military offensives to seek and destroy the enemy in Afghanistan by lethal force. You can try and sanitize it any way you want, but you aren't fooling anyone. We all know it's war. They are? These are the current operations in Afghanistan: here. Where are any of those operations even close to military offensives to "seek and destroy" the enemy? anniepoohh wrote:No...I'm suggesting that YOU are just blindly following it without any sort of direction into what the truth is. And I cannot for the LIFE of me believe that ANYONE would actually consider the canadian government's website and wikipedia as impartial, trustworthy sources of information which may be used in a supposedly objective debate. We, the people of Canada, have elected this government to represent us and our interests. If their sites aren't flawless and truthful, we got what we voted for, yet it's not likely they're going to purposely lie to create a conspiracy around true operations. If you can show me a better, more unbiased article, maybe I'll reconsider. Redrose27 wrote:not to mention that Peacekeeping is KEEPING the PEACE, NOT Creating it. Dude doesn't know what peacekeeping means. When the country doesn't want to keep its own peace, peace has to be created.
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D.Dickin wrote:Stringer wrote:Wait, I thought they were "peacekeeping"? And they are. Unfortunately many people get Canada's role as peacekeepers mixed up with other countries' roles. nauru wrote:Stringer is right. I suppose, Dickin, you believe the Vietnam war wasn't actually a war either, since the US never officially declared war on Vietnam. There's more to a country being at war than just the declaration. In this case, Canada's involvement in Afghanistan operations is no where near that of a nation at war. Quote:Canadian troops are mounting substantial military offensives to seek and destroy the enemy in Afghanistan by lethal force. You can try and sanitize it any way you want, but you aren't fooling anyone. We all know it's war. They are? These are the current operations in Afghanistan: here. Where are any of those operations even close to military offensives to "seek and destroy" the enemy? anniepoohh wrote:No...I'm suggesting that YOU are just blindly following it without any sort of direction into what the truth is. And I cannot for the LIFE of me believe that ANYONE would actually consider the canadian government's website and wikipedia as impartial, trustworthy sources of information which may be used in a supposedly objective debate. We, the people of Canada, have elected this government to represent us and our interests. If their sites aren't flawless and truthful, we got what we voted for, yet it's not likely they're going to purposely lie to create a conspiracy around true operations. If you can show me a better, more unbiased article, maybe I'll reconsider. Redrose27 wrote:not to mention that Peacekeeping is KEEPING the PEACE, NOT Creating it. Dude doesn't know what peacekeeping means. When the country doesn't want to keep its own peace, peace has to be created. You're clueless. Evidence has been posted that shows that Canada went into Afghanistan to remove the government from power. Wikipedia wrote:In September 2001, after the September 11 terrorist attacks, Minister of National Defence Art Eggleton advised Governor General Adrienne Clarkson to authorize more than 100 Canadian Forces members serving on military exchange programs in the United States and other countries to participate in U.S. operations in Afghanistan. The operations were aimed at identifying and neutralizing Al-Qaeda members in that country, as well as toppling the Taliban regime, which was claimed to be supporting international terrorism. Can it get any more clearcut than that? How about this? Wikipedia wrote:After the attacks on September 11, 2001, the Canadian Forces immediately deployed its elite special operations unit Joint Task Force Two. It was used in a vital role in calling airstrikes and directly confronting Al-Qaeda and Taliban positions. Canadian soldiers also relieved US Soldiers, while also setting some sniping records (which doesn't happen in "peacekeeping"). Wikipedia wrote:During the operation, a Canadian sniper team broke, and re-broke, the kill record for a long distance sniper kill set in the Vietnam War by a U.S. Marine, Staff Sgt Carlos Hathcock. Operation Anaconda was also the first time since the Korean War that Canadian soldiers relieved American soldiers in a combat operation. And it goes on and on... Wikipedia wrote:Operation Mountain Thrust was launched in the beginning of the summer in 2006. Canadians of the 2 PPCLI Battle Group were one of the leading combatants and the first fighting when the Battle of Panjwaii took place. Complex mud-walled compounds made the rural Panjwaye District take on an almost urban style of fighting in some places. Daily firefights, artillery bombardments, and allied airstrikes turned the tides of the battle in favour of the Canadians. After Operation Mountain Thrust came to an end, Taliban fighters flooded back into the Panjwaye District in numbers that had not been seen yet in a single area in the "post Anaconda" war. Wikipedia wrote:The Canadian Forces came under NATO command at the end of July, and the 1 RCR Battle Group replaced the PPCLI. Canadians launched Operation Medusa in September in an attempt to clear the areas of Taliban fighters from Panjwaii once and for all. The fighting of Operation Medusa led the way to the second, and most fierce Battle of Panjwaii in which daily gun-battles, ambushes, and mortar and rocket attacks were targeting the Canadian troops. The Taliban had massed with an estimated 1,500 to 2,000 fighters. The Taliban were reluctant to give up the area, and after being surrounded by the Canadian Forces, they dug in and fought a more conventional style battle. After weeks of fighting, the Taliban had been cleared from the Panjwaye area and Canadian reconstruction efforts in the area began. Wikipedia wrote:On 15 December 2006, the Canadians launched Operation Falcon Summit into Zhari District, to the North of Panjwaye. The operation was the Canadian involvement in the NATO-led Operation Mountain Fury. During Op Falcon Summit, the Canadians gained control of several key villages and towns that were former Taliban havens, such as Howz-E Madad. During the first week of the operation, massive Canadian artillery and tank barrages were carried out in a successful attempt to clear pockets of Taliban resistance. The operation concluded with plans to build a new road linking Panjwaye with Kandahar's Highway 1 that runs east-west through Zhari.
-Stringer
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Stringer wrote:Evidence has been posted that shows that Canada went into Afghanistan to remove the government from power. If that was their exact point, that still doesn't make it a war. Where's all this evidence you're talking of anyways?
Carleton University Class of 2012, Honours Bachelor of Arts
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