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bigbadsheep
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:34:24 PM

Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 541
eco wrote:
bigbadsheep wrote:
simplicity16 wrote:
simplicity16 wrote:


I was at a hotel once where a woman fell down the stairs because she had been drinking and lost balance. Don't remember much other than there was blood everywhere. My family had luckily been walking by so we called reception who called the ambulance I guess, so she survived. Otherwise, she probably would have bled to death. GREAT way to die.

Also, I know someone (well indirectly, happened to a friend of someone I know who doesn't drink) who got raped because she had been drinking heavily.


Ok this doesn't change mine or anyone else's view point, but don't want to be using fake examples: from what I was just told, the girl in my example wasn't raped... instead she had drunken sex and got pregnant.

So the point is, drinking has awful consequences. It's not like you have to be a raging alcoholic or regular abuser of alcohol/drugs to suffer, making the mistake ONCE of getting very drunk could potentially ruin your life or the lives of others.

Is the temporary high/enjoyment you get from drinking and using drugs really worth it?

Ask the kids whose fathers were killed by drunk drivers.


OK so then don't make the mistake of getting really drunk, drink in moderation. Don't drink to the point where you don't remember what happened 2 minutes ago, drink to the point where you feel relaxed, but still in control. It's not my fault your friend was immature with alcohol, decided to get crapfaced and then had unprotected sex. As with anything in life BE SMART, and you will be fine.


Wait, you blamed ur friend's pregnancy on him? I think the idea is that.. this is what can happen.


I understand that the point was that it can happen, but this can't happen after drinking 3-4 beers, this would be the result of overdrinking, and getting so drunk that she lost control. To rephrase the OLG warning, "Know your limit, drink within it". I know I can safely consume 19 beers before starting to lose control,but on an average night of drinking, which I do once a week if so much, I drink about 3-4 beers so I feel the buzz, but I'm still in control. Same with being at a party, I'll take a six pack and that's what I drink all night.

UWO '12 Social Science
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:02:49 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
19 beers? rofl, I tihnk its time to step it up to something a bit more potenet buddy. you must piss alot.
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:04:20 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Not a small percentage. Also, your stats, "motor vehicle accident" covers anything that can happen when you hit a car. Alcohol poisoning is the least bad thing that can happen to you from alcohol. Did you read the other side effects? They cover most of the top of the list in your picture.

Heart disease.
Cancer.
Causes car accidents.
Can cause basically any of the other things on that list.


Responsible use of alcohol does not cause heart disease, cancer, car accidents, or anything else. Get a grip.


Responsible (if you mean not passed out) use of alcohol, over and extended period of time, increases risk of cancer and heart disease, cirrhosis, etc. you get a grip.


Actually, no it doesn't.

Quote:
Research in various countries has found the all-cause mortality rates range from 16 to 28% lower among moderate drinkers than among abstainers[9][10][11][12] (Yuan).

The medical studies establishing this relationship are large (some include over 200,000 people), cross-cultural (have been conducted in countries around the world), and are sometimes long-term (the longest beginning in 1948 and continuing to this day).[13]


Nice try though.


No idea what that means, please source it..
Stringer
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:05:52 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,728
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Not a small percentage. Also, your stats, "motor vehicle accident" covers anything that can happen when you hit a car. Alcohol poisoning is the least bad thing that can happen to you from alcohol. Did you read the other side effects? They cover most of the top of the list in your picture.

Heart disease.
Cancer.
Causes car accidents.
Can cause basically any of the other things on that list.


Responsible use of alcohol does not cause heart disease, cancer, car accidents, or anything else. Get a grip.


Responsible (if you mean not passed out) use of alcohol, over and extended period of time, increases risk of cancer and heart disease, cirrhosis, etc. you get a grip.


Actually, no it doesn't.

Quote:
Research in various countries has found the all-cause mortality rates range from 16 to 28% lower among moderate drinkers than among abstainers[9][10][11][12] (Yuan).

The medical studies establishing this relationship are large (some include over 200,000 people), cross-cultural (have been conducted in countries around the world), and are sometimes long-term (the longest beginning in 1948 and continuing to this day).[13]


Nice try though.


No idea what that means, please source it..


It means light to moderate drinking is actually beneficial to your health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_and_health

There are plenty of scientific sources there as well if you want to get more in-depth.

-Stringer
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:08:35 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
Not a small percentage. Also, your stats, "motor vehicle accident" covers anything that can happen when you hit a car. Alcohol poisoning is the least bad thing that can happen to you from alcohol. Did you read the other side effects? They cover most of the top of the list in your picture.

Heart disease.
Cancer.
Causes car accidents.
Can cause basically any of the other things on that list.


Responsible use of alcohol does not cause heart disease, cancer, car accidents, or anything else. Get a grip.


Responsible (if you mean not passed out) use of alcohol, over and extended period of time, increases risk of cancer and heart disease, cirrhosis, etc. you get a grip.


Actually, no it doesn't.

Quote:
Research in various countries has found the all-cause mortality rates range from 16 to 28% lower among moderate drinkers than among abstainers[9][10][11][12] (Yuan).

The medical studies establishing this relationship are large (some include over 200,000 people), cross-cultural (have been conducted in countries around the world), and are sometimes long-term (the longest beginning in 1948 and continuing to this day).[13]


Nice try though.


No idea what that means, please source it..


It means light to moderate drinking is actually beneficial to your health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_and_health

There are plenty of scientific sources there as well if you want to get more in-depth.


We all know that, that means 3 glasses of wine a week, not 19 beers at a time, or party drinking 3-7 days a week.
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:12:35 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
also, what does that % refer to. Clearly drinking doesn't reduce your risk of dying from anything by 25%, so I don't ge tit.
Stringer
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:13:55 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,728
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
eco wrote:
also, what does that % refer to. Clearly drinking doesn't reduce your risk of dying from anything by 25%, so I don't ge tit.


Yes, it does. As many scientific studies have shown, light to moderate drinking is beneficial to your health.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1106591095.html

-Stringer
simplicity16
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:17:26 PM

Rank: Senior Student
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/29/2008
Posts: 145
No no, the girl in the example is not MY friend, she is the friend of someone I know. SHE got drunk and got pregnant.

Anyhow.

Can you be 100% POSITIVE that you will NEVER
... drive a car after drinking at ALL
... allow drinking/drugs to get in the way of your relationships (e.g. cheat on or hit girlfriend/wife)
... have drunken unprotected sex
... have a drunken brawl fight or whatever those are called
... become an alcoholic
... drink so much you pass out (esp. for girls)
... pressure anyone to drink alcohol
... provide alcohol to those you shouldn't
... only drink "moderately" ? which I guess means not getting drunk at all
... allow drinking to affect your studies/job

AND you don't mind living with the risks of moderate drinking

Quote:
Risks of Moderate Drinking

There are risks that might offset the benefits of moderate drinking. Research shows that adverse consequences may occur at relatively low levels of consumption (1).

Stroke. A review of epidemiologic evidence concludes that moderate alcohol consumption increases the potential risk of strokes caused by bleeding, although it decreases the risk of strokes caused by blocked blood vessels (21).

Motor vehicle crashes. While there is some evidence to suggest that low blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) bear little relationship to road crashes, impairment of driving-related skills by alcohol has been found to begin at 0.05 percent BAC or lower, with rapidly progressing deterioration as the BAC rises (22). A man weighing 140 pounds might attain a BAC of 0.05 percent after two drinks.

Interactions with medications. Alcohol may interact harmfully with more than 100 medications, including some sold over the counter (23). The effects of alcohol are especially augmented by medications that depress the function of the central nervous system, such as sedatives, sleeping pills, anticonvulsants, antidepressants, antianxiety drugs, and certain painkillers. There is a consequent increased danger of driving an automobile after even moderate drinking if such medications are taken (24). In advanced heart failure, alcohol may not only worsen the disease, but also interfere with the function of medications to treat the disease (25).

Cancer. Although most evidence suggests an increased risk for certain cancers only among the heaviest drinkers, moderate drinking may be weakly related to female breast cancer. In one study (26), breast cancer was approximately 50 percent more likely to develop in women who consumed three to nine drinks per week than in women who drank fewer than three drinks per week. Although evidence concerning large bowel cancer is conflicting, one study suggests the possibility of a weak relation to consumption of one or more drinks per day (27).

Shift to heavier drinking. Recovering alcoholics, as well as people whose families have alcohol problems, may not be able to maintain moderate drinking habits (2). Once a person progresses from moderate to heavier drinking, the risks of social problems (for example, drinking and driving, violence, trauma) and medical problems (for example, liver disease, pancreatitis, brain damage, reproductive failure, cancer) increase greatly (34)."



?

Narrator: Tobias went to a try-out for the Blue Man Group hoping to be seen.
*Tobias is hit by a car*
Narrator: Unfortunately, it was dusk, and he couldn't be seen.

~Arrested Development
bigbadsheep
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:31:40 PM

Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 541
simplicity16 wrote:
No no, the girl in the example is not MY friend, she is the friend of someone I know. SHE got drunk and got pregnant.

Anyhow.

Can you be 100% POSITIVE that you will NEVER
... drive a car after drinking at ALL
... allow drinking/drugs to get in the way of your relationships (e.g. cheat on or hit girlfriend/wife)
... have drunken unprotected sex
... have a drunken brawl fight or whatever those are called
... become an alcoholic
... drink so much you pass out (esp. for girls)
... pressure anyone to drink alcohol
... provide alcohol to those you shouldn't
... only drink "moderately" ? which I guess means not getting drunk at all
... allow drinking to affect your studies/job

AND you don't mind living with the risks of moderate drinking

Quote:
Risks of Moderate Drinking

There are risks that might offset the benefits of moderate drinking. Research shows that adverse consequences may occur at relatively low levels of consumption (1).

Stroke. A review of epidemiologic evidence concludes that moderate alcohol consumption increases the potential risk of strokes caused by bleeding, although it decreases the risk of strokes caused by blocked blood vessels (21).

Motor vehicle crashes. While there is some evidence to suggest that low blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) bear little relationship to road crashes, impairment of driving-related skills by alcohol has been found to begin at 0.05 percent BAC or lower, with rapidly progressing deterioration as the BAC rises (22). A man weighing 140 pounds might attain a BAC of 0.05 percent after two drinks.

Interactions with medications. Alcohol may interact harmfully with more than 100 medications, including some sold over the counter (23). The effects of alcohol are especially augmented by medications that depress the function of the central nervous system, such as sedatives, sleeping pills, anticonvulsants, antidepressants, antianxiety drugs, and certain painkillers. There is a consequent increased danger of driving an automobile after even moderate drinking if such medications are taken (24). In advanced heart failure, alcohol may not only worsen the disease, but also interfere with the function of medications to treat the disease (25).

Cancer. Although most evidence suggests an increased risk for certain cancers only among the heaviest drinkers, moderate drinking may be weakly related to female breast cancer. In one study (26), breast cancer was approximately 50 percent more likely to develop in women who consumed three to nine drinks per week than in women who drank fewer than three drinks per week. Although evidence concerning large bowel cancer is conflicting, one study suggests the possibility of a weak relation to consumption of one or more drinks per day (27).

Shift to heavier drinking. Recovering alcoholics, as well as people whose families have alcohol problems, may not be able to maintain moderate drinking habits (2). Once a person progresses from moderate to heavier drinking, the risks of social problems (for example, drinking and driving, violence, trauma) and medical problems (for example, liver disease, pancreatitis, brain damage, reproductive failure, cancer) increase greatly (34)."



?


Almost everything listed in that quote involves direct stupidity on the part of the person drinking. If you KNOW you have a medical heart condition, don't drink period, but I don't think that at 18/19, that heart conditions are a dime a dozen. As far as interaction with meds, that is supposed to be common knowledge. Almost all over the counter drugs on their own carry the risk of creating an impairment to the user, hence the warning "Do not operate heavy machinery etc." (I don't know the exact quote), and they all state that it should not be consumed with alcohol. Therefore it is once again the onus of the drinker not to be an idiot. As far as drinking and driving goes, the legal limit is .08, obviously it is that level because it is felt that this is a safe standard. Body mass has alot to do with drinking/becoming impaired as well. I'm a big boy, 10 beers, won't affect my motor skills. But 10 beers to a smaller guy and definitely a girl may cause them to lose control.

UWO '12 Social Science
bigbadsheep
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:36:26 PM

Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 541
simplicity16 wrote:
No no, the girl in the example is not MY friend, she is the friend of someone I know. SHE got drunk and got pregnant.

Anyhow.

Can you be 100% POSITIVE that you will NEVER
... drive a car after drinking at ALL
... allow drinking/drugs to get in the way of your relationships (e.g. cheat on or hit girlfriend/wife)
... have drunken unprotected sex
... have a drunken brawl fight or whatever those are called
... become an alcoholic
... drink so much you pass out (esp. for girls)
... pressure anyone to drink alcohol
... provide alcohol to those you shouldn't
... only drink "moderately" ? which I guess means not getting drunk at all
... allow drinking to affect your studies/job

AND you don't mind living with the risks of moderate drinking


Define: provide alcohol to those you shouldn't? Is that giving alcohol to an 18 year old in Ontario? Because if you are talking about legal drinking age, that has no bearing to this argument, as it varies greatly from place to place.
And as far as can I be 100% positive on all that other stuff, I can assuredly say that I won't, but that's because I have the motivation not to, but at the same time some of those things can happen sober or drunk. You don't need to be drunk to cheat or abuse your partner, you don't need to be drunk to fight, you don't need to be drunk to have unprotected sex.
And about drinking moderately, getting drunk once or twice a year won't send you into a downward spiral of alcoholism. Like anything it is okay in moderation. If you get drunk everyday you are seriously damaging yourself, but moderate drinking once, twice, maybe even three times a week won't adversely affect you.
As to what moderate drinking is, that is for you yourself to figure out since it may vary from person to person depending on a number of influencing factors.

UWO '12 Social Science
simplicity16
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:44:37 PM

Rank: Senior Student
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/29/2008
Posts: 145
bigbadsheep wrote:


Define: provide alcohol to those you shouldn't? Is that giving alcohol to an 18 year old in Ontario? Because if you are talking about legal drinking age, that has no bearing to this argument, as it varies greatly from place to place.
And as far as can I be 100% positive on all that other stuff, I can assuredly say that I won't, but that's because I have the motivation not to, but at the same time some of those things can happen sober or drunk. You don't need to be drunk to cheat or abuse your partner, you don't need to be drunk to fight, you don't need to be drunk to have unprotected sex.
And about drinking moderately, getting drunk once or twice a year won't send you into a downward spiral of alcoholism. Like anything it is okay in moderation. If you get drunk everyday you are seriously damaging yourself, but moderate drinking once, twice, maybe even three times a week won't adversely affect you.
As to what moderate drinking is, that is for you yourself to figure out since it may vary from person to person depending on a number of influencing factors.


I meant provide alcohol to those who may not follow the list I made (don't have the self control that you and Stringer apparently haverazz)


Obviously you don't need to be drunk to cheat/abuse partner BUT you do have a higher risk of doing something stupid like that after drinking as opposed to being sober since your judgment is impaired.

If you do get drunk even once or twice a year, of course it won't "send you into a downward spiral of alcoholism" but then how can you assure yourself 100% you won't do the things I mentioned when intoxicated?

Narrator: Tobias went to a try-out for the Blue Man Group hoping to be seen.
*Tobias is hit by a car*
Narrator: Unfortunately, it was dusk, and he couldn't be seen.

~Arrested Development
bigbadsheep
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:06:04 PM

Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 541
simplicity16 wrote:
bigbadsheep wrote:


Define: provide alcohol to those you shouldn't? Is that giving alcohol to an 18 year old in Ontario? Because if you are talking about legal drinking age, that has no bearing to this argument, as it varies greatly from place to place.
And as far as can I be 100% positive on all that other stuff, I can assuredly say that I won't, but that's because I have the motivation not to, but at the same time some of those things can happen sober or drunk. You don't need to be drunk to cheat or abuse your partner, you don't need to be drunk to fight, you don't need to be drunk to have unprotected sex.
And about drinking moderately, getting drunk once or twice a year won't send you into a downward spiral of alcoholism. Like anything it is okay in moderation. If you get drunk everyday you are seriously damaging yourself, but moderate drinking once, twice, maybe even three times a week won't adversely affect you.
As to what moderate drinking is, that is for you yourself to figure out since it may vary from person to person depending on a number of influencing factors.


I meant provide alcohol to those who may not follow the list I made (don't have the self control that you and Stringer apparently haverazz)


Obviously you don't need to be drunk to cheat/abuse partner BUT you do have a higher risk of doing something stupid like that after drinking as opposed to being sober since your judgment is impaired.

If you do get drunk even once or twice a year, of course it won't "send you into a downward spiral of alcoholism" but then how can you assure yourself 100% you won't do the things I mentioned when intoxicated?


As far as providing alcohol to those who may not follow the list, it's university. Everyone will be able to access alcohol legally this year or next year. I am not my brother's keeper. I will prevent them from doing something extremely stupid ie. decide to drive while obviously intoxicated or if I notice someone trying to take advantage of a drunk girl or something, but I'm not going to follow around every drunk person to make sure they don't do something stupid, that's a risk you're taking by deciding to drink beyond you're limit.
If it's a small group of friends getting together for some drinking or smoke session, then obviously we're a bit more vigilant and make sure everyone in the group is okay and enjoying themselves, but it's a different set of rules at some random party.

As for how I can assure that I won't be a hazard to myself when drunk, I don't know, I've never been that drunk. For me to get there that's in excess of at least 36 beers or a mickey and a half to get to that point(just ballparking) and the most I think I've ever drunk was a 2-4. I've been drunk to the point where I'm loud, beligerent, and uninhibited, but at the same time, I've still been in posession of my motor skills, and aware of what was going on around me.

And as for the higher risk of doing something stupid like abusing you're partner I need some proof or something, because there have been times where I am pretty intoxicated around people who I despise even when I'm sober, and I have never fought anyone or hit anyone. Was close to it one time, but I caught myself in time before anything happened, and walked away.

UWO '12 Social Science
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:43:04 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
also, what does that % refer to. Clearly drinking doesn't reduce your risk of dying from anything by 25%, so I don't ge tit.


Yes, it does. As many scientific studies have shown, light to moderate drinking is beneficial to your health.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1106591095.html


HAHAHA are u kidding me? get real. it is moderately benifical. Shown to decrease risks slightly (only noticable over a large population) of certain diseases. You just said drinking reduces your chance of dying by 25%, that make you dumb.
Stringer
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:45:40 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,728
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
eco wrote:
Stringer wrote:
eco wrote:
also, what does that % refer to. Clearly drinking doesn't reduce your risk of dying from anything by 25%, so I don't ge tit.


Yes, it does. As many scientific studies have shown, light to moderate drinking is beneficial to your health.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1106591095.html


HAHAHA are u kidding me? get real. it is moderately benifical. Shown to decrease risks slightly (only noticable over a large population) of certain diseases. You just said drinking reduces your chance of dying by 25%, that make you dumb.


Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_and_health#Modern_understanding

Quote:
Research in various countries has found the all-cause mortality rates range from 16 to 28% lower among moderate drinkers than among abstainers[9][10][11][12] (Yuan).

The medical studies establishing this relationship are large (some include over 200,000 people), cross-cultural (have been conducted in countries around the world), and are sometimes long-term (the longest beginning in 1948 and continuing to this day).[13]


Multiple citations back up this claim.

Just keep believing everything your Mommy and Daddy told you.

-Stringer
eco
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:59:46 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
this doesnt include drinking related accidents, or the results of overuse. that stat related only to very moderate drinking.
Stringer
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:01:58 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,728
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
eco wrote:
this doesnt include drinking related accidents, or the results of overuse. that stat related only to very moderate drinking.


That's why I said don't abuse it, chief.

-Stringer
thecowsaysmoo
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:27:22 PM
Rank: Frosh
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 22
Location: Toronto
Is it wrong that while reading all these statistics, I am reminded that the odds of dying from a kick in the head from a donkey are something like 14 times greater than dying in a plane crash?


UWO BIOMEDICAL SCIENCES AND SCHOLARS ELECTIVES 2012
eco
Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:22:19 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
No because they deal with a small amount of acohol, its misleading. Its not, more alcohol the better providing you don't kill yourself that night. Also, there are obviously many prerequisites and assumptions to make those numers work. Like previous health, and many others.
eco
Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:22:50 PM
Rank: Valedictorian
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 551
Location: toronto
I'ma watch out for those donkeys.
Stringer
Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:53:31 PM

Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 1,728
Location: Wilfrid Laurier University
eco wrote:
No because they deal with a small amount of acohol, its misleading. Its not, more alcohol the better providing you don't kill yourself that night. Also, there are obviously many prerequisites and assumptions to make those numers work. Like previous health, and many others.


They obviously take into account things like previous health. They isolate the variable they are testing.

-Stringer


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