|
|
Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009
Posts: 2,276
Location: Toronto
|
Do you believe that we, as Canadians are brainwashed by our government, and consequently our education system to believe in individual, democratic and liberal values (individual choice, freedoms etc.)? Why or why not?
I'm curious to see what you guys think!
And no, it's not school related.
Queen's Bachelor of Commerce 2014
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/8/2009
Posts: 2,229
Location: On This Forum
|
In a catholic schools at least you feel compelled to give the Catholic response in certain assignments.
McMaster- Electrical and Biomedical Engineering Class of 2015
..has sadly made the transition over to MacInsiders
|
|
Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 4,390
Location: Ottawa, ON.
|
No, there's no secret conspiracy of government brainwashing  End thread.
Carleton University
Bachelor of Arts in Law
|
|
Rank: Vice-président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2009
Posts: 706
Location: Ontario
|
HopefulUniGirl wrote:In a catholic schools at least you feel compelled to give the Catholic response in certain assignments. This is true. Especially in Religion class.
Applied to:
Queen's Concurrent Education (Accepted!)
Laurier Brantford Concurrent Education (Accepted)
Brock Child and Youth/Concurrent Education(Accepted)
Queen's Chancellor's Nominee
|
|
Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 196
Location: Nestea Zero
|
As the foundations of Canada's political system, liberal, democratic assumptions can't help but perpetuate themselves. E.g., when we think about what we want our system to be, we don't go to the principles of totalitarian communism for support.
But I don't understand why we would. If we're happy with our current system, then it makes no sense to undermine it by validating all competing views.
Einstein: "You were doomed as soon as you lost the ability to love."
Sonic: "I think you've got that backwards, doc."
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 1,623
|
the most interesting thing i can add is:
im my school ( and international school in the middle east with 0% local population), the students seem to have certian conservitive arab values. For example, other then hte north amercan raised kids, there seems to be alot of homophobia. However in french class, where we have to do oral about contravertial issues, thy all say they are ok with gay marraige just so thye dont like douche bags.
another thing is they are all anti isreal.
however i do think that canada does allow for liberal values. i dont see why that is a bad thing, brainwash makes it seems really negitive. But i really hate it when people talk crap about monarchy. It is a system that works, many times. I think the general population can be a bit dumb at times and does nt undertand what is best. Democracy is excellent in theory, but it must assume that all who vote are inteligent, and thats just not true.
Queen's Commerce Class of 2014
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 1,062
Location: Pluto
|
Brainwashing "any method of controlled indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion"
Yeah I would say without a doubt that governments brainwash their citizens.
Schools are supposed to teach us how to be good little, obedient robots who believe that hard work and straight As will put us on top of the world.
"Still sippin wishin well water, imported, from Pluto"
My name is Car, I'm Greek.
Pluto IS a real planet.
Check my profile.
|
|
Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 196
Location: Nestea Zero
|
Abop wrote:the most interesting thing i can add is:
im my school ( and international school in the middle east with 0% local population), the students seem to have certian conservitive arab values. For example, other then hte north amercan raised kids, there seems to be alot of homophobia. However in french class, where we have to do oral about contravertial issues, thy all say they are ok with gay marraige just so thye dont like douche bags.
another thing is they are all anti isreal.
however i do think that canada does allow for liberal values. i dont see why that is a bad thing, brainwash makes it seems really negitive. But i really hate it when people talk crap about monarchy. It is a system that works, many times. I think the general population can be a bit dumb at times and does nt undertand what is best. Democracy is excellent in theory, but it must assume that all who vote are inteligent, and thats just not true. Say what?
Einstein: "You were doomed as soon as you lost the ability to love." Sonic: "I think you've got that backwards, doc."
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 1,623
|
A monarchy is not the same as a dictatorship. And i bet you have never lived in a country that is based on. But i can tell you, its pretty good when you have a competent leader that can do what is needed by will and not have to go through red tape and political crap. Its a system that works great when it comes to developing quality of living, but i don't think it is perfect for economic growth.
If you live under a competent monarchy with liberal laws, its excellent.
where i live its great, the leader is very intelligent, and when he overthrew his father, the country went through massive modernisation. the quality of living is pretty good. It is relativity liberal, there is scope for improvement but there aren't any life altering laws around here. People are soo ignorant, they think all of the middle east is like Saudi Arabia, where i have also lived. But you would be very wrong.
I have lived in Democracies, Monarchies and Sharia law and i can tell you that all of the systems have problems ( especial sharia law) but they also have their advantages.
However we are going to derail the thread so lets leave it at that.
Queen's Commerce Class of 2014
|
|
Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 1,402
Location: Toronto
|
callaway wrote:Abop wrote:the most interesting thing i can add is:
im my school ( and international school in the middle east with 0% local population), the students seem to have certian conservitive arab values. For example, other then hte north amercan raised kids, there seems to be alot of homophobia. However in french class, where we have to do oral about contravertial issues, thy all say they are ok with gay marraige just so thye dont like douche bags.
another thing is they are all anti isreal.
however i do think that canada does allow for liberal values. i dont see why that is a bad thing, brainwash makes it seems really negitive. But i really hate it when people talk crap about monarchy. It is a system that works, many times. I think the general population can be a bit dumb at times and does nt undertand what is best. Democracy is excellent in theory, but it must assume that all who vote are inteligent, and thats just not true. Say what? Think of Jordan.
Schulich iBBA 2014
|
|
Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009
Posts: 2,276
Location: Toronto
|
^ Very interesting points guys. And Abop, you bring a great perspective. However, -as a side note from the thread- although there are many misconceptions, I still believe that Middle East in general lacks when it comes to civil rights and social issues. It still has a long way to go until it reaches the stage that countries such as Canada, U.K., Spain, Australia, the Scandinavian nations etc. have reached. Also, I believe the aversion that is exerted by many western citizens towards the Middle East is still there. For example, one of my female teachers refuses to visit the Middle East due to the lack of women's rights in many Arab nations. I think it's mainly because of the stories that you hear from the media, as well as the strictness that seems to be portrayed through legislature. Also, since many guide themselves after the Islamic religion, that perhaps has the biggest influence in it too (and through this point, I don't mean to start a religious battle btw  ). It's also really hard to push yourself to understand their values, when you lived in a very liberal nation. I mean, when I visit Eastern Europe I find myself many times outraged by many of their practices that in Canada would infringe of human rights big time (and you need to realize, that overall Eastern Europe is very liberal compared to many areas in the world). Probably, if I were to visit a very traditional and conservative nation I would be repulsed by what it's happening. But again, I guess it's the same the other way around too. Nways, back to the main topic. I just went off on a tangent there.
Queen's Bachelor of Commerce 2014
|
|
Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 196
Location: Nestea Zero
|
Abop wrote: A monarchy is not the same as a dictatorship. And i bet you have never lived in a country that is based on. But i can tell you, its pretty good when you have a competent leader that can do what is needed by will and not have to go through red tape and political crap. Its a system that works great when it comes to developing quality of living, but i don't think it is perfect for economic growth.
If you live under a competent monarchy with liberal laws, its excellent.
where i live its great, the leader is very intelligent, and when he overthrew his father, the country went through massive modernisation. the quality of living is pretty good. It is relativity liberal, there is scope for improvement but there aren't any life altering laws around here. People are soo ignorant, they think all of the middle east is like Saudi Arabia, where i have also lived. But you would be very wrong.
I have lived in Democracies, Monarchies and Sharia law and i can tell you that all of the systems have problems ( especial sharia law) but they also have their advantages.
However we are going to derail the thread so lets leave it at that. You hinted at this in your post ("when he overthrew his father"), but it's important to note that a monarchy is founded on the idea that one person (or group, e.g., the King and his coterie of advisers) has a monopoly on truth, and will govern in an impartial and benevolent fashion. A casual look at history will reveal that this is a bad premise on which to start a government: for every super-competent Jordanian King there are four super-stupid British kings. (Luckily, the British learned their lesson.) Look at it another way. Imagine your King was deposed in a coup by some doofus as horrible as the King's father. Would you be praising the qualities of the monarchy then?
Einstein: "You were doomed as soon as you lost the ability to love." Sonic: "I think you've got that backwards, doc."
|
|
Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/11/2010
Posts: 387
Location: Ontario
|
I've always thought that a democracy where there is a minority government is the best way. Then the government can't just do what it wants, it needs have the other parties' support. The only thing I have a problem with with the Canadian government is the lack of proportional representation. It seems so wrong to me that the blocs have 4.9 seats for every % of popular vote, while the conservatives have 3.8, liberals have 2.9, NDP have 2.0, and Green have 0. It doesn't seem like true democracy, when the populations votes are so misrepresented by the seats, and when there's so much strategic voting that occurs, because voting green, or NDP seems pointless. I think if there was proportional representation there would be much more people voting green and NDP, and a much more balanced parliament that more accurately affects what the society wants.
Queen's Engineering Class Of 2014
|
|
Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 196
Location: Nestea Zero
|
isaac wrote:I've always thought that a democracy where there is a minority government is the best way. Then the government can't just do what it wants, it needs have the other parties' support.
The only thing I have a problem with with the Canadian government is the lack of proportional representation. It seems so wrong to me that the blocs have 4.9 seats for every % of popular vote, while the conservatives have 3.8, liberals have 2.9, NDP have 2.0, and Green have 0. It doesn't seem like true democracy, when the populations votes are so misrepresented by the seats, and when there's so much strategic voting that occurs, because voting green, or NDP seems pointless. I think if there was proportional representation there would be much more people voting green and NDP, and a much more balanced parliament that more accurately affects what the society wants. Ontario and Quebec make up two-thirds of the Canadian population, and two-thirds (more or less) of the MPs in Parliament are from Ontario and Quebec. I think you just have a problem with Quebec and the fact that we let them vote, not with how we draw riding boundaries. There are rules, you know!
Einstein: "You were doomed as soon as you lost the ability to love." Sonic: "I think you've got that backwards, doc."
|
|
Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/11/2010
Posts: 387
Location: Ontario
|
callaway wrote:isaac wrote:I've always thought that a democracy where there is a minority government is the best way. Then the government can't just do what it wants, it needs have the other parties' support.
The only thing I have a problem with with the Canadian government is the lack of proportional representation. It seems so wrong to me that the blocs have 4.9 seats for every % of popular vote, while the conservatives have 3.8, liberals have 2.9, NDP have 2.0, and Green have 0. It doesn't seem like true democracy, when the populations votes are so misrepresented by the seats, and when there's so much strategic voting that occurs, because voting green, or NDP seems pointless. I think if there was proportional representation there would be much more people voting green and NDP, and a much more balanced parliament that more accurately affects what the society wants. Ontario and Quebec make up two-thirds of the Canadian population, and two-thirds (more or less) of the MPs in Parliament are from Ontario and Quebec. I think you just have a problem with Quebec and the fact that we let them vote, not with how we draw riding boundaries. There are rules, you know! I never said anything about provinces. Nor do I dislike the French. I have quite a lot of French friends from Quebec, and I definitely have no problem with letting everyone vote. My problem is with proportional representation. The fact that the percentage of seats a party gets is usually radically different from the percentage of votes that they get. 9.98% of Canadians voted green, yet they got no seats. That means that those 9.98% of Canadians have absolutely no representation, which seems undemocratic.
Queen's Engineering Class Of 2014
|
|
Rank: Posteur Expérimenté
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 196
Location: Nestea Zero
|
isaac wrote:callaway wrote:isaac wrote:I've always thought that a democracy where there is a minority government is the best way. Then the government can't just do what it wants, it needs have the other parties' support.
The only thing I have a problem with with the Canadian government is the lack of proportional representation. It seems so wrong to me that the blocs have 4.9 seats for every % of popular vote, while the conservatives have 3.8, liberals have 2.9, NDP have 2.0, and Green have 0. It doesn't seem like true democracy, when the populations votes are so misrepresented by the seats, and when there's so much strategic voting that occurs, because voting green, or NDP seems pointless. I think if there was proportional representation there would be much more people voting green and NDP, and a much more balanced parliament that more accurately affects what the society wants. Ontario and Quebec make up two-thirds of the Canadian population, and two-thirds (more or less) of the MPs in Parliament are from Ontario and Quebec. I think you just have a problem with Quebec and the fact that we let them vote, not with how we draw riding boundaries. There are rules, you know! I never said anything about provinces. Nor do I dislike the French. I have quite a lot of French friends from Quebec, and I definitely have no problem with letting everyone vote. My problem is with proportional representation. The fact that the percentage of seats a party gets is usually radically different from the percentage of votes that they get. 9.98% of Canadians voted green, yet they got no seats. That means that those 9.98% of Canadians have absolutely no representation, which seems undemocratic. As opposed to first-past-the-post? I see now. And I agree. The current voting system is less democratic.
Einstein: "You were doomed as soon as you lost the ability to love." Sonic: "I think you've got that backwards, doc."
|
|
Rank: Membre du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/11/2010
Posts: 387
Location: Ontario
|
callaway wrote:isaac wrote:callaway wrote:isaac wrote:I've always thought that a democracy where there is a minority government is the best way. Then the government can't just do what it wants, it needs have the other parties' support.
The only thing I have a problem with with the Canadian government is the lack of proportional representation. It seems so wrong to me that the blocs have 4.9 seats for every % of popular vote, while the conservatives have 3.8, liberals have 2.9, NDP have 2.0, and Green have 0. It doesn't seem like true democracy, when the populations votes are so misrepresented by the seats, and when there's so much strategic voting that occurs, because voting green, or NDP seems pointless. I think if there was proportional representation there would be much more people voting green and NDP, and a much more balanced parliament that more accurately affects what the society wants. Ontario and Quebec make up two-thirds of the Canadian population, and two-thirds (more or less) of the MPs in Parliament are from Ontario and Quebec. I think you just have a problem with Quebec and the fact that we let them vote, not with how we draw riding boundaries. There are rules, you know! I never said anything about provinces. Nor do I dislike the French. I have quite a lot of French friends from Quebec, and I definitely have no problem with letting everyone vote. My problem is with proportional representation. The fact that the percentage of seats a party gets is usually radically different from the percentage of votes that they get. 9.98% of Canadians voted green, yet they got no seats. That means that those 9.98% of Canadians have absolutely no representation, which seems undemocratic. As opposed to first-past-the-post? I see now. And I agree. The current voting system is less democratic. Yeah, its hard to say that without sounding anti-French, since its mainly the blocs (and to a lesser extent, the conservatives) who have a higher representation than the popular vote gives them.
Queen's Engineering Class Of 2014
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 1,623
|
callaway wrote:Abop wrote: A monarchy is not the same as a dictatorship. And i bet you have never lived in a country that is based on. But i can tell you, its pretty good when you have a competent leader that can do what is needed by will and not have to go through red tape and political crap. Its a system that works great when it comes to developing quality of living, but i don't think it is perfect for economic growth.
If you live under a competent monarchy with liberal laws, its excellent.
where i live its great, the leader is very intelligent, and when he overthrew his father, the country went through massive modernisation. the quality of living is pretty good. It is relativity liberal, there is scope for improvement but there aren't any life altering laws around here. People are soo ignorant, they think all of the middle east is like Saudi Arabia, where i have also lived. But you would be very wrong.
I have lived in Democracies, Monarchies and Sharia law and i can tell you that all of the systems have problems ( especial sharia law) but they also have their advantages.
However we are going to derail the thread so lets leave it at that. You hinted at this in your post ("when he overthrew his father"), but it's important to note that a monarchy is founded on the idea that one person (or group, e.g., the King and his coterie of advisers) has a monopoly on truth, and will govern in an impartial and benevolent fashion. A casual look at history will reveal that this is a bad premise on which to start a government: for every super-competent Jordanian King there are four super-stupid British kings. (Luckily, the British learned their lesson.) Look at it another way. Imagine your King was deposed in a coup by some doofus as horrible as the King's father. Would you be praising the qualities of the monarchy then? speaking of truth... i will admit that there is some truth hidden from the citizens when you have a monarchy, juts like any government really, but i never hear about any crimes except when the cops block drug deals ( being so close to afghanistan and iran, alt of the drugs go through here). So i am under the impression that i am in a very safe country in general. I just wonder if thats a bad thing. Would my life be any better knowing that the streets are dangerous, or should i enjoy the ignorant bliss? As i said before, it is based on if you have a a good leader, if the leader is usless then monarchy fails compealtly. Justaboi, yes there is some development needed in the middle east, it has definatrly not reached scandinavian levels, but it is by no means Saudi whcih i would consider backwards. actully the current king of Saudi is making change, the one next in line however, is an extreamist backwards arab. Just out of curiosity, what civil rights are you refering to.
Queen's Commerce Class of 2014
|
|
Rank: Student Body President
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009
Posts: 2,276
Location: Toronto
|
^ Hey Abop. I'm mostly talking about individual freedoms, ensuring people are protected from discrimination (based on gender, religion, sexual orientation, origin, etc), ensuring all citizens have equal rights and are able to develop to their full potential in the society (equal access to education, healthcare etc), ensuring they feel protected and have their voices heard in case issues arise, ensuring people's safety etc.
I am sure there is still a great divide between classes, as well as fear/discrimination if you fit into various minority groups (e.g. if you practice other religions, if you are gay, if you are a female in some instances etc).
Queen's Bachelor of Commerce 2014
|
|
Rank: Président du conseil étudiant
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 1,623
|
homosexuality is illegal here. And there is a quite a bit of discrimination and unlawfulness towards the immigrant workers in the construction industry. However thigns like female equality i wouldnt say there is oppresion. There are no laws that make women any different then men, however culture is a different thing. In some cases the ladies have more privilidges then men.
There isnt too much serious crime around here. Fraud and sometimes theft does occur but not alot of murder, but in the rural areas i can only imagin that rape is more common, yet not reported.
In terms of education, it is paid for by the government, currently there are 2 universities and 5 or so colleges in the country of about 2 million people. And surprisingly, it is mostly females who are educated. i think its like a 4:3 female:male ratio
As i said before, i can gaurentee that in comparison to your perception of the middle east, it is much more free and liberal then you would think, especially where i live. But i wouldnt say it is as liberal as north america, there is definatly space for improvement, but its people who think that the middle east is still in the stone ages that piss me off.
Queen's Commerce Class of 2014
|
|
